Declaration of Emergency Committee on April 26th, 2022

[Claude Carignan, Senator, Quebec (Mille Isles), C]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, I'm still trying to understand how you invoked the Emergencies Act. You seem to be convinced of what you say, but I think you're having us on.

Here's my first question.

Are you familiar with section 134.1 of Ontario's Highway Traffic Act? Has it been brought to your attention?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Not at my fingertips. I'm familiar with the Highway Traffic Act, as I think we all are.

[Claude Carignan]

Has anyone in your office, an adviser perhaps, mentioned section 134.1 of Ontario's Highway Traffic Act?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

I know, just as everyone knows, that there are laws granting police forces powers to ensure and restore public safety. I can assure you those powers were ineffective in restoring public safety in the situation in question. That's why we decided to invoke the Emergencies Act. You should've seen the situation on Wellington Street and at the border. The act wasn't invoked based solely on the government's opinion.

[Claude Carignan]

The blockade at the Ambassador Bridge was cleared before you invoked the Emergencies Act. That wasn't the first blockade of a train or highway in Canada. We've always managed to clear blockades using injunctions and measures taken by municipalities, provinces and the federal government. The army was called in to resolve the situation during the Oka crisis.

Why was it necessary to invoke the Emergencies Act in order to remove the vehicles from Wellington Street? That situation still leaves me speechless.

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

With all due respect, I'd say the emergency in late January and through February was unprecedented because all the blockades occurred at the same time. We'd never seen that degree of disruption on Ottawa streets.

[Claude Carignan]

I agree with that. People organized a barbecue in the middle of the street and even installed a hot tub.

However, under section 134.1 of Ontario's Highway Traffic Act, a police officer may order the removal of a vehicle that's blocking traffic. Couldn't one of the many police officers there try to order the removal of a vehicle or bring in a tow truck to do it, as had already been done? Absolutely nothing was done under the Emergencies Act that police officers couldn't have done before it was invoked.

Do you agree with me?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Yes, we have Ontario's Highway Traffic Act, but it wasn't effective in the circumstances. One of the problems was that no tow trucks were available.

We were not able to secure the tow trucks. There were threats. There were interruptions at the time. That was one piece of advice we were getting at the time.

[Claude Carignan]

Minister, I found tow trucks for sale in Auto Hebdo magazine. You could have bought some and had the trucks removed yourselves without invoking the Emergencies Act. Ontario's Highway Traffic Act gives police officers authority to enter a vehicle, take its keys and have it towed and moved somewhere else. You didn't need the Emergencies Act to do it. If towing was your problem, you should've used the army's tow trucks or bought your own. You didn't need to invoke the Emergencies Act in order to remove vehicles. It made no sense.

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Senator, I would point out once again that the police tried but couldn't do it. That's why we decided to invoke the Emergencies Act.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Your speaking time is up.

Thank you, Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Carignan.

I now give the floor to Senator Harder.

[Peter Harder]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Welcome, Minister.

I want to pursue a little bit of the questioning of Senator Boniface.

I'm a senator from Ottawa, as you might know. My question is this: What took you so long?

Why did it take three weeks of the disruption that was visited on Ottawa? I respect that you had the others on the border, but I want to talk about Ottawa. Why did it take three weeks for you to act?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

That is a totally fair question.

I assure you that, as we embark on this review, we are thinking very much about the amount of time it took to transition from the local police of jurisdiction to the provincial police, who are there to backstop where local police don't have the resources that they need.

I also want to remind and underline that, notwithstanding the absence of there being a law that explains exactly how we move from local-provincial to federal, the RCMP were consistently offering additional personnel, tools and resources to support the local police of jurisdiction to try to deal with the blockades.

The other thing I would say, Senator, is that an important principle to recall is that, as a matter of day-to-day operation, you do not want elected officials stepping into the space of the police. It is well established that we write the laws as parliamentarians and we expect that our police enforce those laws.

[Peter Harder]

The community, though, also expects the elected officials—municipal, provincial and federal—to act with greater alacrity than three weeks in the face of the situation we had.

In your earlier testimony, you said, “the advice we received was to invoke the Emergencies Act.”

From whom did you receive that advice? I don't need names, but are you saying all levels of government? Are you saying only police but also political jurisdictions that have a responsibility to advise? I'd like you to elaborate on that so that we can be assured in Ottawa at least that you weren't just waiting around for the opportunity.

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

No, I assure you, we were not. There was a community of different partners within the public safety and national security apparatus, as well as the consultations that we were undertaking with different levels of government, including those that were directly impacted by the illegal blockades across the country. There was a very robust discussion.

The other thing I would offer as context—and I realize how difficult it was, certainly at the time, for those who live in Ottawa in particular—is that, because this was the first time we were invoking the Emergencies Act, we went to great pains to get it right. In retrospect, I do think that the entire episode and the saga does expose a number of questions, which have been raised by colleagues at this table, around interjurisdictional co-operation and how reinforcements are sent.

It is my hope that, at the end of this process, all of the members of this committee will be able to offer your best advice and your best recommendations, having regard to the challenges that we encountered.

[Peter Harder]

I'd just like to ask one quick question. Can I infer from your response that all jurisdictions necessary—provincial, municipal and federal—were coordinated in their advice to invoke the act?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

I would say that there was a very strong consensus that we needed to invoke. I would again offer that the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police, the Ontario association, the Canadian association.... Law enforcement was very strong in its—

[Peter Harder]

What caused this, short of unanimity, to make a consensus? Who wasn't...?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

I don't want to speak for every last serving member of law enforcement, but there was a very strong consensus that we needed to invoke the act.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Your speaking time is up.

Thank you, Minister.

Thank you, Senator Harder.

I now give the floor to Senator Campbell for five minutes.

[Larry W. Campbell, Senator, British Columbia, CSG]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here.

Chair, can I address this to Commissioner Lucki, or is she coming later on?

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

You can ask Ms. Lucki. She's online.

[Larry W. Campbell]

Thank you very much.

Commissioner Lucki, thank you for being here.

Can you tell us on what date the RCMP became a seated member of the management team dealing with the Ottawa lockdown?

[Commissioner Brenda Lucki, Commissioner, Royal Canadian Mounted Police]

Right from the beginning of the protest we had a role to play. In the initial instances, we had our own mandate of protecting Parliament, parliamentarians and the Senate. We had a national capital region command centre that included Ottawa Police Service, OPP and other police of jurisdiction. We also had a joint intelligence group, where we worked together throughout the protest.

Then, when it came to enforcement actions just prior to that weekend of enforcement, we had created a planning cell, a joint planning cell, with an integrated command centre specifically for the enforcement. We were helping them throughout with frontline policing duties as well as with other specialized resources.

[Larry W. Campbell]

Was it from the very beginning that you were at the table?