Evidence of meeting #5 for Declaration of Emergency in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was question.
A video is available from Parliament.
9:25 p.m.
Liberal
David Lametti Liberal LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC
Mr. Chair, it was a bit like the lightning round on the TV program Génies en herbe.
9:25 p.m.
Bloc
The Joint Chair Bloc Rhéal Fortin
We will be able to reinvite you, Minister. I know everyone around the table will agree to invite you back. It would obviously be helpful for you to finish your testimony.
9:25 p.m.
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
Just a general practice we've had at this committee is to invite the witnesses to provide in writing any additional comments on questions they may not have had the opportunity to answer, for the fullness of our analysis in our future reports.
9:25 p.m.
Bloc
9:25 p.m.
Bloc
9:25 p.m.
Liberal
Rachel Bendayan Liberal Outremont, QC
I actually have a question for our clerks.
Have we invited witnesses to appear next week?
At our last meeting, we adopted a motion calling for at least four meetings with specific witnesses.
9:25 p.m.
Bloc
The Joint Chair Bloc Rhéal Fortin
That's what we'll be discussing, Ms. Bendayan. That's obviously an important point.
Mr. Motz, you have the floor before the Minister leaves the meeting.
9:25 p.m.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
You will excuse the minister and then I want to get into some....
9:25 p.m.
Bloc
The Joint Chair Bloc Rhéal Fortin
All right.
Thank you, Minister. Ladies and gentlemen accompanying the Minister, thank you for taking part in the meeting. I'll expect your meeting request, Minister.
Now we have to decide what we'll do at the meeting next Tuesday. Will we hear witnesses? There are still some pending motions. Part of the meeting could be devoted to housekeeping motions. Otherwise, we could hear from witnesses.
9:25 p.m.
Liberal
Rachel Bendayan Liberal Outremont, QC
Mr. Chair, my suggestion was that we give our clerks clear instructions so we can begin meetings with witnesses. We've planned on four meetings with specific witnesses, according to the motion adopted at the last meeting.
A few weeks ago, we also adopted a motion to have two additional ministers appear, the Minister of Finance and the Minister of Emergency Preparedness. I think that's the fourth witness.
So we have to plan five or six meetings with witnesses over the next few weeks and schedule them. We have only eight weeks before the end of the session.
9:25 p.m.
Bloc
The Joint Chair Bloc Rhéal Fortin
Yes.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought we had planned to redo the housekeeping motions exercise on May 3, next Tuesday. It's up to the committee to make a decision because I can't do it alone.
We'll definitely have to hear witnesses, and we have pending motions, including one on the disclosure of documents. That motion was introduced by Mr. Motz, but it was amended. If we want to ask the Minister or anyone in government to disclose documents, we shouldn't wait until the end of June to do so because we'll have to deal with delays. It may be appropriate to discuss that matter. We can reject or adopt it, but we should do it quickly.
9:25 p.m.
Liberal
Rachel Bendayan Liberal Outremont, QC
We can ask the witnesses to provide documents of interest to us when they appear before us. That will go much more quickly.
I admit that time is passing and we have work to do. The committee has spent time on motions and requests on numerous occasions. Now we have to move on to serious matters.
9:25 p.m.
Peter Harder
I just want to support the notion of continuing with the witnesses we've agreed to. It's clear that tonight we had a very substantive three-hour meeting. I'd rather continue with that than debate motions that don't shed much light.
9:25 p.m.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
Thank you.
I will respectfully disagree with both Ms. Bendayan and Senator Harder. We do have committee business in front of us. It is beholden on this committee to finish that committee business. I propose that we have half of our meeting next week. We don't have any list of witnesses who are ready to go next week that I'm aware of. I suggest that we have half of our meeting next week to finish off committee business and that we have the other half for a witness, whoever might be available.
It's important that, given the time that the various motions might take to come to fruition and whether we get agreement by this particular committee next week to deal with specific ones, it might take some time to get those things squared away from a document release perspective or from other witnesses. I think we need to at least have some conversation and allow ourselves to do that.
At the end of the day, we're going to have witnesses and witnesses, and we have to have—I believe it's next week.... Is it next week that our witness list has to be in or is it by the end of this week? Right, our first list of preliminary witnesses has to be in today. I think you'll see that it's a pretty extensive list. We need to get at witnesses, but we also need to finish committee business.
9:30 p.m.
Bloc
The Joint Chair Bloc Rhéal Fortin
Mr. Green wanted to speak. He will be followed by Mr. Virani.
Mr. Green, the floor is yours.
9:30 p.m.
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I wanted to note that, if tonight is any indication of the reluctance of the government to provide this committee—which I believe was charged, we were sworn in—with information that would be pertinent to the testimony of future witnesses, unfortunately, I think we're in a corner where we're going to have to call the question at this committee at some particular future point in time to see if it is the will of this committee to work towards the transparency and accountability of this process, which includes the disclosure of documents.
We had just in the last exchange here that the minister made it very clear that, while it is true in other cases that he could provide charter compliance information, he was not compelled to do that based on legislation. As a committee we have the power under lots of jurisprudence to demand documents from this government, and I'm interested in those documents. I'm interested in getting to the facts of the matter. We've heard lots of reference to the facts, Mr. Chair, but we've yet to see them in plain sight, whether it's in an in camera scenario or not.
I would argue that, at some point in time, we're going to have to deal with the motion that's at hand, which is to have a disclosure of documents that are necessary for the fullness of our future investigations.
9:30 p.m.
Bloc
The Joint Chair Bloc Rhéal Fortin
I'm going to give you the floor, Mr. Virani, but first I'd like to pass on some information.
The clerk tells me that what we can do at the next meeting is devote half the meeting to committee business, then hear from a minister in the second half. That might be one way of proceeding. I pass that opinion on for your information and leave you to continue debating it.
Unless you have anything to add, Mr. Clerk?
April 26th, 2022 / 9:30 p.m.
The Joint Clerk of the Committee Mr. Paul Cardegna
Perhaps we could invite one of the two remaining ministers whose appearance hasn't yet been determined. We don't know whether those ministers will be available, but we can invite them.
9:30 p.m.
The Joint Clerk Mr. Paul Cardegna
If they can't come, we have the committee's future business and the work plan that the analysts are preparing, but it's up to the committee to decide what it wants to do.