Evidence of meeting #7 for Declaration of Emergency in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was rcmp.
A video is available from Parliament.
8:05 p.m.
Senator, Ontario, C
But, again, you did not make the recommendation that the Emergencies Act be invoked.
8:05 p.m.
Commr Brenda Lucki
No. When they had decided on some of the authorities, they consulted with the RCMP as well as other police agencies to see if any of those authorities they were contemplating would assist us and if they would be useful.
8:05 p.m.
Commr Brenda Lucki
Yes.
8:05 p.m.
Senator, Ontario, C
So there were discussions in the days leading up to the invocation about the potential invocation of the Emergencies Act—
8:05 p.m.
Commr Brenda Lucki
Yes.
8:05 p.m.
Commr Brenda Lucki
I can't get into the details of specific discussions, but I can say that, yes—
8:05 p.m.
Commr Brenda Lucki
Because they were within cabinet, and I'm bound by that cabinet confidence. I can talk in general about how I provided the situation report, which would have provided them the details that they needed to come up with some of the measures. When they did come up with measures, they came to us to ask if these measures would be useful.
Then, when they were revoking it, of course, they came again to us and asked, “Are you in a position that you no longer need the additional authorities?” It was a consultation.
8:05 p.m.
Senator, Ontario, C
At any time, did you recommend that anyone apply for an injunction to try to utilize the tools that an injunction would give you in relation to the protest here in downtown Ottawa?
8:10 p.m.
Commr Brenda Lucki
No, not me nor the RCMP, no.
8:10 p.m.
The Joint Chair Hon. Gwen Boniface
Thank you very much.
We will suspend for 10 minutes, and then we'll resume.
8:20 p.m.
The Joint Chair Hon. Gwen Boniface
May I ask all witnesses to turn on their cameras?
There we are. I think we have everyone.
I think we're good for five minutes each to all members.
We'll begin with Mr. Motz.
You have five minutes.
8:20 p.m.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
Thank you very much again, Chair.
Thank you, witnesses, for remaining with us.
I just want to take you back, both Commissioner and Mr. Vigneault, to your statements. They were appropriate statements.
Mr. Vigneault, you said first that violent extremists use protests as a platform, and, I believe, Commissioner, you said that violent extremists will leverage protests and protest-type activities for their purposes. I appreciate both perspectives on that.
I also want to commend the RCMP for their handling of the issue with firearms at Coutts. I was on the ground and spoke with command there and was very impressed with the work being done and their interaction with protesters.
What I wanted to do, Commissioner, just to confirm from you.... I was very impressed with the news release that the RCMP put out in regard to the firearms found at Coutts. I know that media and members of the government would love to suggest that the firearms found there were protesters' firearms, but again, that's where I commend the RCMP for their thorough and very exact use of words in that release.
They said that a “criminal” organization used the protest—they leveraged that protest—and they weren't connected to the protest. They used that opportunity to propagate their own violence.
I just want to confirm that statement from you: that it's exactly what happened and that a violent extreme group with ties back here to Ottawa—a criminal organization that Mr. Vigneault knows well—was there on the ground and used that opportunity and was not part of the protest. They just used that as a platform. Would that be accurate, based on your news release?
8:20 p.m.
Commr Brenda Lucki
Yes, that was according to the news release. I don't think we made quite a connection to Ottawa with that group yet.
8:20 p.m.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
Okay. Maybe I'm inside baseball. Sorry. I thank you for that.
Thank you, both of you, for your involvement in dealing with that particular type of threat.
Mr. Vigneault, I have a couple of questions for you, if I could, please.
Did CSIS receive any intel of any kind from the Canadian military on the “freedom convoy” here in Ottawa?
8:20 p.m.
Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
Mr. Motz, thank you.
I do not remember specifically, but it would not be unusual for CSIS members throughout the country to receive information. I do not recall specifically, however.
8:20 p.m.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
Okay.
I know this has nothing to do with you, but on the use of the surveillance plane over the convoy protest here in Ottawa during the time of the protest, I'm just curious to know whether the information gathered there was shared with you or any other intel agency that you're aware of.
8:20 p.m.
Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
I am only aware of the “spy plane”, as you call it, from the media, so we have not had any involvement.
8:20 p.m.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
Okay.
I want to go back to Commissioner Lucki. We didn't really finish our opening line of questioning about section 5 of the RCMP Act. You hold that office under the direction of the Minister of Public Safety, correct?
8:20 p.m.
Commr Brenda Lucki
Yes.
8:20 p.m.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
Did the Minister of Public Safety or any government minister ever offer you direction under section 5 to deploy RCMP resources to deal with the convoy protests?
8:25 p.m.
Commr Brenda Lucki
No. The minister is very, very conscious of not providing direction, and we remind ourselves at each and every meeting just so that we're clear on the rules of engagement.