Evidence of meeting #6 for Electoral Reform in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was voters.
A video is available from Parliament.
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Director, Canadian Studies Program, and Professor, Department of Political Science, University of Toronto, As an Individual
I didn't hear it mentioned once on the hustings.
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Conservative
Jason Kenney Conservative Calgary Midnapore, AB
About as often as the Liberal Party mentioned its commitment to change the system.
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Director, Canadian Studies Program, and Professor, Department of Political Science, University of Toronto, As an Individual
I agree.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Jason Kenney Conservative Calgary Midnapore, AB
Thank you.
Mr. Tanguay, he's referred to the common distinction between consensual versus majoritarian democracies. Is it not true that, broadly speaking, the consensual democracies, as generally identified by academics, tend to be smaller and more homogeneous states than majoritarian democracies, which tend to be larger and more diverse?
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Professor, Political Science, Wilfrid Laurier University, As an Individual
Not all of them, no.
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Conservative
Jason Kenney Conservative Calgary Midnapore, AB
No, my question was about a tendency. I didn't ask about all of them.
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Professor, Political Science, Wilfrid Laurier University, As an Individual
I don't—
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Conservative
Jason Kenney Conservative Calgary Midnapore, AB
Benelux and Scandinavian countries, etc., tend to be consensual; larger populations and federations tend to be—
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Professor, Political Science, Wilfrid Laurier University, As an Individual
Germany.
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Conservative
Jason Kenney Conservative Calgary Midnapore, AB
Right, there is your exception. I was asking about a rule, not for exceptions.
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Professor, Political Science, Wilfrid Laurier University, As an Individual
France...no, not France.
It might be a tendency, yes. Certainly the Nordic model is reliant on a fairly homogeneous population, that is true.
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Conservative
Jason Kenney Conservative Calgary Midnapore, AB
Right.
You painted a bit of a picture of the consensual democracies being bucolic states, where everybody's happy—
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Professor, Political Science, Wilfrid Laurier University, As an Individual
Again, we're talking about tendencies—
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Professor, Political Science, Wilfrid Laurier University, As an Individual
—which Lijphart makes very clear.
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Conservative
Jason Kenney Conservative Calgary Midnapore, AB
You've indicated that's the tendency or that's the general rule. Is it not equally true that some of the most dysfunctional democracies in the world are in the consensual category? Right now Spain would be a relatively good example of that. I don't know if you've ever visited the Knesset but political discourse in that Israeli system, driven by proportional representation, is not exactly very civil.
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Professor, Political Science, Wilfrid Laurier University, As an Individual
This is old hat, Mr. Kenney. The examples of Israel, or you should have mentioned the Weimar Republic electing Hitler, these are the examples trotted out—
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Conservative
4:10 p.m.
Professor, Political Science, Wilfrid Laurier University, As an Individual
—continually by those who are fearful of electoral reform, and it's not fair. It's not accurate. To cite Israel indicates that you're not serious about being open to a discussion about the merits of electoral reform, you're simply starting off opposed to the idea. That's abundantly clear.
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Conservative
Jason Kenney Conservative Calgary Midnapore, AB
So I'm not serious because I'm raising concerns about consensual democracies that don't function at the same level that you suggest they generally do...? Okay—
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Professor, Political Science, Wilfrid Laurier University, As an Individual
Yes.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Jason Kenney Conservative Calgary Midnapore, AB
—thank you very much.
Is it not true that in the United Kingdom, I think it was four years ago, there was a referendum on changing the electoral system?
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Professor, Political Science, Wilfrid Laurier University, As an Individual
Yes, there was.
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Professor, Political Science, Wilfrid Laurier University, As an Individual
They rejected it.