Environment Committee on Nov. 29th, 2007

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Yes.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Do you have it here?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Let me see. I might. Just one second.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

It's only because, Minister, while you're looking, we've got other parts of the letter that are not up on the overhead here. I'd like to read into the record another part of the letter you have not quoted, because you selectively picked about two sentences from the letter.

This is what the letter goes on to say: “The undersigned represent industry associations and environmental organizations that have major substantive concerns with multiple elements of the regulatory framework.” They go on to say they propose to you: “A high-level multi-stakeholder advisory committee that would provide advice to senior officials”— two of them sitting beside you—“to the four key departments on implementation of the regulatory framework on solutions to issues that arise and on approaches to harmonized federal and provincial regulations.”

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Mr. McGuinty, as you know, this is a very short intervention.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Very quickly, why isn't that on the slide with this other paragraph?

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Minister, you may wish—obviously we're looking for short answers in this very short round—to provide us with a written answer to some of this to provide the details on that point.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

We'll provide a full copy of the letter, if you like.

It's a quotation from the letter. It's not misrepresented; it's exactly what they said. We're working constructively; we've taken them up on their offer. I think it's constructive; I think it's good.

I quoted three Liberal environment ministers. Did I quote every single thing they ever said? No. It's a quote, it's identified from a letter, and that's the fact.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Minister, I don't want to be interrupting—

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I'm not going to let you try to misrepresent it, though, as you did earlier.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Thank you, Minister.

Mr. Warawa.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

I have a number of interesting quotes that I was tempted to read here, but I think generally we found your presentation very helpful and enlightening, clearly showing how important it is that Canada do its part, which we're committed to do: 20% by 2020 is huge; 60% to 70% by 2050 is huge—the toughest targets in the world.

Minister, I want to thank you and wish you all the best as you go to Indonesia, working hard.

Actually, Chair, I'd like to provide a motion at this time. I move that the committee thank the minister for setting out Canada's position on Indonesia for the upcoming UN conference on climate change and offer best wishes and a successful conclusion to the conference.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Thank you, Mr. Warawa. We'll do that at the end of the meeting, if you don't mind. Mr. Watson seconds the motion.

Mr. Bigras.

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

Based on the minister's presentation, I would like to table a motion that proposes the following:

That through its chair, the Standing Committee on Environment and Sustainable Development write to the Minister of the Environment in order to share with him their wish to see him, on the occasion of the 13^th Party Conference on Climate Change, make a commitment to reduce greenhouse gases by 20% in comparison with 1990 levels by 2020, and to accept Europe's invitation to reduce levels of emissions by 30%, if all developed countries support it.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Is there a second motion?

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

I'm giving the rest of my time to the NDP, if there is any.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Very well. Thank you very much.

I now give the floor to Mr. Cullen.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

This is a question about leverage that you hope to have, Minister, as we're talking about Bali and the well-wishing that you're getting from your party. Concerning the inability to have a presentation of hard targets to the world community, will you commit to sign, either this week or en route to Bali, at least one regulation that will ask Canadian industry to lower their greenhouse gas emissions?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

The regulatory package we're putting together is well known to you, sir. We spoke to this earlier.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

This is important, Minister, in terms of your ability to influence these other countries, because as you've suggested, absolute targets are a requirement for success; yet in Canada we have neither absolute targets nor any regulations whatsoever.

How is it that you've positioned success at this conference to be something that Canada—your government—is currently failing on already? It is counterintuitive and illogical to suggest that you're waiting for the world to do something you are unwilling to do yourself.

So I ask you again, will you be willing to sign at least one regulation into law that has been on your desk for a number of months—at least one—to show good faith to the international community that Canada is willing to do its part?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

We're going to move as quickly as humanly possible to get a regulatory regime in place. We're working constructively with industry and environmental groups, and we will do it as quickly as is humanly possible.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

This is a process that you've engaged in that will bring about a complicit failure; that is a foreshadowing of what you expect out of this. It's very frustrating to me, and I think to many Canadians, that Canada, and you in your position as Minister of the Environment meant to protect the environment, will not present one signed regulation that will allow Canada some sort of credibility after years of failure. I find it beyond logic and beyond reason to continue to purport that the problem is China and India, when it is Canada, under your watch and under previous administrations, that refuses to have one regulation signed that will allow and ask industry to become compliant. It's a hypocrisy that you know the world community will not accept. I refuse to understand to this point why you would continue to purport it.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Thank you, Mr. Cullen. I'll allow the minister a brief response, please.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I think I've already responded.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Thank you very much, Minister.

We'll now turn to the time for the discussion of the motion before us.

Minister, thank you for appearing before us today. Merry Christmas, a bit early.