Evidence of meeting #20 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was technologies.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Murray R. Gray  Professor, University of Alberta, As an Individual
Selma Guigard  Associate Professor, Environmental Engineering Program, University of Alberta, As an Individual
William F. Donahue  Independent Researcher, Limology and Biogeochemistry, As an Individual
David Schindler  Professor of Ecology, University of Alberta, As an Individual
Mary Griffiths  As an Individual
Jim Boucher  Chief, Fort McKay First Nation
Roxanne Marcel  Chief, Mikisew Cree First Nation
Georges Poitras  Consultation Coordinator, Government and Industry Relations, Mikisew Cree First Nation
Allan Adam  Chief, Athabasca Chipewyan First Nation
Bill Erasmus  Regional Chief, Northwest Territories, Assembly of First Nations
Albert Mercredi  Chief, Fond du Lac First Nation, As an Individual
François Paulette  Fort Fitzgerald First Nation, As an Individual
Sam Gargan  Dehcho First Nation, As an Individual
Diane McDonald  Coordinator, Prince Albert Grand Council
J. Michael Miltenberger  Deputy Premier and Minister of Environment and Natural Resources, Government of the Northwest Territories
Hassan Hamza  Director General, Department of Natural Resources, CANMET Energy Technology Centre (CETC) - Devon
Thomas Gradek  President, Gradek Energy Inc.
Kim Kasperski  Manager, Water Management, Department of Natural Resources

3:50 p.m.

Director General, Department of Natural Resources, CANMET Energy Technology Centre (CETC) - Devon

Dr. Hassan Hamza

Absolutely. That's one of our main mandates in NRCan.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Justin Trudeau Liberal Papineau, QC

Earlier today Dr. Schindler talked a lot about airborne deposits. Have you looked into airborne deposits? You talk about volatile organic compounds and such. Are you looking primarily at the direct output, or are you also looking at the impacts of airborne emissions?

3:55 p.m.

Director General, Department of Natural Resources, CANMET Energy Technology Centre (CETC) - Devon

Dr. Hassan Hamza

I think Dr. Kasperski can answer that.

3:55 p.m.

Manager, Water Management, Department of Natural Resources

Dr. Kim Kasperski

We're mainly looking at what leads to certain amounts of VOC release and any way to reduce that. We are not looking specifically at the impacts of VOC release on the environment. We're looking at technologies, the science behind reducing those releases, and technologies to reduce those releases.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Justin Trudeau Liberal Papineau, QC

So the science and technology we would be looking at is what's coming out of smokestacks and such as well.

3:55 p.m.

Manager, Water Management, Department of Natural Resources

Dr. Kim Kasperski

Our particular focus is mostly on surface mining issues around the VOC release to the tailings ponds from solvent use and so on.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Justin Trudeau Liberal Papineau, QC

We're talking about solvents--

3:55 p.m.

Manager, Water Management, Department of Natural Resources

Dr. Kim Kasperski

During the extraction process they add solvents, which are quite volatile. They do try to recover as much as they can during the process, but some is lost to the tailings streams they send to the pond. We're asking why they can't recover as much and then what technologies can improve that recovery.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Justin Trudeau Liberal Papineau, QC

There was a reference earlier during the testimony to the fact that the solvents become food for micro-organisms within the tailings ponds, which then emit them as methane.

3:55 p.m.

Manager, Water Management, Department of Natural Resources

Dr. Kim Kasperski

That observation has been made at the Syncrude ponds, but not at the Suncor ponds. Why do you have different populations of microbes in one versus the other? I'm not a biologist, so I can't address that.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Justin Trudeau Liberal Papineau, QC

Again, that highlights the need for more science and more investment in science.

Thank you. I'll use the remainder of my time to turn to Dr. Gradek.

Dr. Gradek, first of all, what does RHS stand for?

3:55 p.m.

President, Gradek Energy Inc.

Thomas Gradek

Reusable hydrocarbon sorbent.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Justin Trudeau Liberal Papineau, QC

Why are you here?

3:55 p.m.

President, Gradek Energy Inc.

Thomas Gradek

We've been undertaking vast amounts of time in exploring, developing, and working with the oil sands industry to come up with a very simple solution to tackling their tailing ponds. Hydrocarbon losses in tailings are a source of--

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Justin Trudeau Liberal Papineau, QC

I'm sorry, I don't mean to interrupt--

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Chair Conservative Blaine Calkins

You're out of time, Mr. Trudeau.

Mr. Ouellet, seven minutes.

3:55 p.m.

Bloc

Christian Ouellet Bloc Brome—Missisquoi, QC

Yes, thank you.

First of all, Mr. Hamza, I would like to ask you the question concerning the 120,000 direct and indirect jobs generated by the oil sands operation. That's significant, and 45% of those jobs are outside Alberta. At CANMET, have you conducted any studies to determine how many jobs would have been created if the same amount of money had been spent since 1913—the federal government has been spending since that date—in the renewable energy sector? How many jobs would have been created, decentralized jobs across Canada, from Newfoundland and Labrador to British Columbia? How many jobs would have been created in each province and territory? Have you conducted that study at CANMET?

3:55 p.m.

Director General, Department of Natural Resources, CANMET Energy Technology Centre (CETC) - Devon

Dr. Hassan Hamza

Not in my area. I really cannot answer that question. I think it's a very valid question, and it's based on scenarios that some economists can dig down into it and get the information.

3:55 p.m.

Bloc

Christian Ouellet Bloc Brome—Missisquoi, QC

Does Ms. Kasperski know?

3:55 p.m.

Manager, Water Management, Department of Natural Resources

Dr. Kim Kasperski

You're asking me the same question?

3:55 p.m.

Bloc

Christian Ouellet Bloc Brome—Missisquoi, QC

Have any studies been conducted to determine how many jobs would have been created in green energy production if the same amount of money had been spent, in addition to environmental costs?

3:55 p.m.

Manager, Water Management, Department of Natural Resources

Dr. Kim Kasperski

I'm sorry, I would have no idea what that would be.

3:55 p.m.

Bloc

Christian Ouellet Bloc Brome—Missisquoi, QC

Mr. Gradek, that's very nice, but I don't understand. At the end of the process, do you extract bitumen or beads?

3:55 p.m.

President, Gradek Energy Inc.

Thomas Gradek

We recover bitumen, granules. The beads are reusable, clean and the entire cycle takes five minutes. In less than five minutes, we've recovered the bitumen on the beads and we use them again.

4 p.m.

Bloc

Christian Ouellet Bloc Brome—Missisquoi, QC

When did you make this discovery?