Environment Committee on May 12th, 2009

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, all of you, for your presentations. They are very important.

I certainly recognize that each of you is here representing your own nation and that you have orders of government similar to the federal government and the provincial government. Has your nation ever been directly consulted by the federal government as it has gone through reviews on each of these individual tar sands operations ? Have you been directly consulted by the federal government, in its review of the environmental impact assessments, about whether or not you had concerns and issues that you wanted addressed by the federal government?

Go ahead, Chief Mercredi.

[Chief Albert Mercredi]

Thank you for the question. Fond du Lac has made history by being part of this hearing today on the development of the tar sands.

To answer the question, no, downriver on the Athabasca side, we have never been consulted regarding the impacts and the devastation that comes along with it, and we've never been part of the environmental assessment process.

[Sam Gargan]

No. I'm downstream from François Paulette's area, the Dehcho region, and we've never been consulted or advised of this development that is now in progress.

[François Paulette]

Eelna in my language means no.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Today, by coincidence, the federal commissioner for sustainable development has issued his report. He sits in the Office of the Auditor General of Canada. Among the reports he has issued today is his report on water and oil sands and whether federal fisheries are adequately protecting habitat and protection from toxins.

In his report, he expresses that there is an agreement between the Alberta government and Canada on the administration of toxins as they impact water, which includes in the tar sands area. He has reported concerns that the committee has not even met in two years and the fact that the federal government has for quite some time been relying completely on the provincial government to be monitoring the impact on the tar sands.

I'm wondering if either of your governments have ever been approached by the federal government to become a party to these administrative agreements on managing the waterways.

[François Paulette]

No.

I just want to just say that when the water is down right now at 35% or 40%, all these little rivers that flow into the Slave River are dried up and these fish can't go to spawn. They can't take refuge from this polluted water that's there; they're stuck with having to be in this river that is polluted, so I imagine that the health of these fish would decrease.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Chief Mercredi.

[Chief Albert Mercredi]

First of all, from the perspective of the Athabasca government, we have put a system in place to define what we see as a protocol system and a duty to consult and accommodate. The Province of Saskatchewan was putting laws on the land that had never been in place before, not even under the duty to consult and accommodate from the Province of Saskatchewan, and in Alberta also. We have made those laws by putting a protocol system into place and a version of what we want to do in protecting the interest of the land, especially the indigenous species and the environment and everything that goes with it, including the drinking water.

[Diane McDonald, Coordinator, Prince Albert Grand Council]

You made a point about the agreement. We've never been approached—not by Alberta, Saskatchewan, or Canada.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Could you introduce yourself, give your names for the record, please?

[Diane McDonald]

For the record, I'm Diane McDonald, Prince Albert Grand Council, representing the Athabasca region.

[Chief Albert Mercredi]

We are in discussions with the territorial government, and we are also involved with the Keepers of the Water to bring our issues to the attention of governments, industry, and the world.

[François Paulette]

We are on the Alberta side, but the DNR that is doing this water strategy plan has visited our community. They are from the territorial side. We haven't seen anybody from the federal or provincial governments. The other guys from the other side came to visit us.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

You have been consulted, Chief Paulette, by the territorial government but not by Alberta or the federal government? Okay.

You mentioned the proposed hydro dam on the Slave River. I met you 25 years ago when the first proposal came forward. Do you have any concerns about the potential build-up of toxins back of the dam they're considering? Do you have any idea where that dam might be built and what the implications might be upstream for the Athabasca Lake and the Athabasca region?

[François Paulette]

If you look at the map, there are rapids at Fort Smith. Back in the late seventies and early eighties, the Alberta government was planning to dam the whole river and create 2,000 megawatts.

Nancy Southern of ATCO said in a newspaper article on Friday, I believe, that they're going produce 1,000 to 1,500 megawatts, run of the river. They cannot do that; it's impossible. I think her consultants, her engineers, are giving her the wrong information. We have hired an independent consultant to look at this. If you look at what they're proposing, the run of the river would start from Dog River on the east side, and they would have to make a trench right back into Fort Smith. That is the run of the river.

That will produce only 500 megawatts at the maximum--at the maximum. To produce 1,500 or 1,000 megawatts at the Mountain Rapids, for what they call run of the reservoir, you would have to obstruct the whole river. That would mean that all our territory, all our gravesites and archaeological sites, would be under water. Hunting, trapping, fishing would be no more. This will kill the river. It's like plugging up your sewer system here in Edmonton. If we did that, we'd have a pretty smelly city in a pretty short time. That's what will happen here.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Mr. Warawa.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

My thanks to the witnesses for being here today.

Chief Mercredi, where are your communities getting their drinking water? Is it being tested? What are the results of those tests?

[Chief Albert Mercredi]

In our community we get the drinking water from the groundwater system adjacent to the lake.

Throughout the day I've been listening to what you've been asking on the drinking water, and with that question you've raised, I guess the other issue is that we're trying to approach this whole consultation right into the safe drinking water process. In actuality, the acid rain, the effluents that are being discharged, are on the outside part of what the question is, but it is an issue, especially with the fish habitat and all of that.

We are under regulations, like anybody else, for a safe drinking water system, but we do not have the modern-day water treatment plant to treat the water system if we were to become contaminated.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

Your drinking water is from groundwater, so you're using wells. How deep are your wells?

[Chief Albert Mercredi]

It is a groundwater system using well water pumps along the shorelines of Lake Athabasca.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

How deep do your wells go?

[Chief Albert Mercredi]

The deepest one, I believe, is equivalent to the water level on Lake Athabasca, but because of the fluctuation of the water levels in the past year we have run into some difficulties.

I am surprised about the question that was asked here about the water system. We have experienced difficulties with our pumps running out of water, and I believe that was related to the water entering in from the Peace River into Lake Athabasca that had fluctuated the water levels and created some problems for us.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

Is it municipal testing of the water?

[Chief Albert Mercredi]

No, it's a federal requirement, federal standards.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

It's federal testing. What are the results of the testing of the water? Is it done daily or weekly?