Environment Committee on March 12th, 2015

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

I want to ask you some questions, Mr. Rodgers, and I'll ask the other gentlemen to listen in. If I have a chance, I'll come back to them and ask the same questions.

How many members do you have in your federation of anglers and hunters, Mr. Rodgers?

[Tony Rodgers]

We have 6,500 members and supporters of the federation.

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Do you have an estimate of how many people in Nova Scotia, beyond the 6,500 who are your members, participate in hunting and angling?

[Tony Rodgers]

As I mentioned in my opening remarks, we have a wildlife resources card in Nova Scotia. There are 100,000 people who actually have that card.

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Very good.

A few years ago this committee did a study on the Species at Risk Act. Quite frankly, we heard a lot of good evidence and a lot of good ideas about how the Species at Risk Act might be tweaked to improve it. Regrettably, that was in the previous parliament. As you know, that parliament had to be dissolved in 2011, so the committee never actually finished and reported on that study.

I'd like to ask you about the Species at Risk Act, Mr. Rodgers. Do you or your members in any way participate in some of the activities under the Species at Risk Act, either through assessments of species or through recovery or management plans?

[Tony Rodgers]

We do. As a matter of fact, I think the most important part of what we do goes back to that five dollars that's collected off of our licences, which is used to generate money for research. Many of the students at Acadia University apply for that money in grants in order to study, in most cases, species at risk—Blanding's turtle and animals of that nature.

One of the species at risk in Nova Scotia is the mainland moose, the moose on the mainland portion of Nova Scotia. The moose in the Cape Breton highlands are in fine shape but those on the mainland are not. We have spent time and money on that. As a matter of fact, it will take a short story. There was a small bog up in Cumberland County that we went into with a crew of men and lumber. We had to build ramps into this particular bog because the moose were getting trapped in it. They were unable to get out even when we collapsed the sides of the bog, so we made ramps for them to be able to pull themselves out. This is just one example of the things we're interested in with respect to the mainland. That, again, is not a huntable animal for us, but that was something we knew we had to do as good stewards of the wildlife resource.

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Actually, perhaps I'll go to Mr. LeBlanc for a moment and ask the same question.

Can you tell me whether your group or your members have participated in activities such as those Mr. Rodgers just told us about? If you know that and have an example, I'd be interested to hear it.

[Charles LeBlanc]

We're always asked to participate and have our comments on species at risk. The only one that I've been involved with would be salmon-related, not hunting-related, because they want to list the Atlantic salmon. I've had some input into that. In terms of other species and our species here, none of our species in New Brunswick are targeted for listing.

[The Chair, Conservative, Harold Albrecht]

We'll move now to Mr. Choquette.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My first question is for Mr. LeBlanc.

Before I ask it, I would like to say that it was very interesting to learn that the only real federal legislation on hunting and trapping is the Migratory Birds Convention Act, 1994. That's important to keep in mind.

If I've understood correctly, there has been a drop in the number of moose in recent months, and deer have had problems because of the harsh winter. We know that there will be more and more problems related to climate change, such as very long periods of cold or very hot periods.

What action do you think the federal government should take to tackle the climate change issue?

[The Chair, Conservative, Harold Albrecht]

Is that for Mr. LeBlanc?

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

My question is for Mr. LeBlanc.

[Charles LeBlanc]

Climate change is a very complex issue to get into.

I have members who would say we're not affecting the climate. Personally I believe that we as humans are a cause of it. What can we do? We could try to minimize our impact in the sense of making better choices. A lot of my members are using vehicles that consume a lot of fossil fuels, so maybe we could try to help there. I understand the federal government is reluctant to reach emission targets or to try to push legislation, because doing that is not good for business. Business is not good for the environment, and bad environment is not good for animals.

That's all I can give you today.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Mr. LeBlanc, I would like to add something to what you just said.

You represent hunting and fishing organizations with about 4,000 members. As you mentioned, hunting and fishing clearly have a direct impact on your region's economic development.

How do you assess the risk of having ecosystems that are more fragile because of climate change and habitat loss? How do you see the economic future of the people you represent? Could climate change and the destruction of habitat really cause economic damage?

[Charles LeBlanc]

We will definitely see some changes. We already see changes with migrations of species to other areas of the province. We've had a lot of flooding in our province lately, and we've seen some very fast increases of rivers. So on climate change, it's warm. We get flooding—and not at the normal time in the spring, so a lot of the outfitters or people who want to pursue fishing might not be able to participate in these sports.

As far as animals are concerned, it could be bad if the province were to warm up. Deer in our province are in the northern edge of their habitat, and if our province were to warm up, I guess we might see more deer. I'm not quite sure what other animals would suffer.

But yes, climate will affect our industry.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Since I have only 30 seconds left, I will ask you, Mr. Rodgers, if you have anything to add.

[Tony Rodgers]

Charlie's pretty much said it. The changes are coming subtly—in some cases, a little bit more or less subtly. For instance, some birds are migrating back to the north ahead of schedule. I don't know what to tell you about climate change in Nova Scotia this year. I think we'll be ice fishing in July with the way things are going in the opposite direction.

Our main concern with respect to wildlife and protection of wildlife is more with habitat than climate change. If we keep cutting down trees the way we're doing in Nova Scotia, there won't be a place for them to live anyway, regardless of what decides it. We're burning wood to generate electricity. Biomass piles are going into big furnaces. It's not going to take long before there won't be anything around anyway.

[The Chair, Conservative, Harold Albrecht]

Thank you, Mr. Choquette.

We'll move now to Mr. Carrie, for five minutes.

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to ask a question to Mr. LeBlanc and Mr. Rodgers. You both talked about the roles of science and trapper information in determining surplus animals, things like that. You just spoke about habitat.

I know you do work with the federal government, Environment Canada, or your groups do. Could you elaborate a bit more on what hunters and trappers do to contribute to science and conservation management?

[Tony Rodgers]

In Nova Scotia hunters are involved with a number of things in that respect, Dr. Carrie. For instance, in the harvesting of whitetail deer or a moose, the hunter is asked to return the jawbone of the animal to the department of natural resources. That gives them an idea of the condition of the animal. It also gives them some idea of the animal's age by looking at the wear on the teeth. Trappers are asked to turn in the carcasses of certain animals to do the same thing, and I know that our hunters have been out doing counts for the department of natural resources. They also report animals that have been hit by cars and things of this nature so that they can take a bone marrow test to determine the quality and the condition of the animal. There are a lot of things we can get involved in.

We also do antler measurements. We measure the outside circumference of the antler and report it to Natural Resources Canada, and that gives them an idea of growth, health of the animals, and things of this nature. We don't just sit back on our laurels. We actually get in there and pitch information back to the biologists for them to use.

[Charles LeBlanc]

It's the same thing in New Brunswick. We do participate. You can turn in jawbones. We don't have a program where everybody turns in the jawbone, but those who want to, do. During hunting season the department of natural resources will put bio stations around the province, where they'll go into more detail on the harvested animal. They would weigh it. They would take a jaw out. They would sex it. They would find out if it carried young, or if it was bred last year. They take this information during the season. As well, there are some 4,000 animals struck by automobiles around the province, and every one of those has the data taken and input into the overall.... It looks at the overall herd for moose, deer, bear.

So yes, we do participate.

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

Thank you very much for that. I think it's important that the committee understand how essential hunters and trappers are for conservation management and for habitat.

I want to go to Mr. Rodgers for a minute. You mentioned demographics. Could you describe who is participating in hunting and trapping in your province? You mentioned how important teaching ethics is. You touched upon youth and how important getting youth involved is. Could you let the committee know a little about the demographics in your province?

[Tony Rodgers]

Yes, well, we're all getting a little long in the tooth in Nova Scotia. I think the average age of our hunters is running at about 55 years. We're trying to bring more people into our program.

Yes, the youth get training. We also put on training programs around the province for youth to attend to get first-hand experience at shooting sports and at trapping as well.

We're also looking at a small increase in the number of women who participate in the sport. As a matter of fact, last weekend at the sports and RV show in Halifax there were quite a few women, who had formed their own club in order to participate in a one-on-one woman camaraderie thing as they participate in hunting. We think this is tremendous.

Let me put a little more information into this thing too, just to show the committee. In Nova Scotia we also have a program called Hunters Helping the Hungry. We donate part of our bounty to the food bank in Nova Scotia to feed Nova Scotia. Last year we put in more than 2,000 kilograms of protein. They have a hard time getting protein. This is something that's very important to the community, so we're also giving back in that respect—not only the money but part of the kill.

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

I'm curious about your outreach to new Canadians. Are you seeing new Canadians taking up the sport and having an interest in the role of hunters and trappers and the way we manage the wonderful habitat we have, here in this country?

[Tony Rodgers]

My only experience in that, Dr. Carrie, is at the sports and RV show when new Canadians approach us. They can see us and they have a talk. I'm quite surprised, actually, how little they know about what they are allowed to do.

I think the most startling thing to some of them is that they are allowed to own a firearm, because in the countries they came from, that was a no-no; you wouldn't be allowed to have one at any cost. Then they're told yes, you can, and here are the steps you have to go through.

Hopefully we will get some of those new recruits into our system. It's coming and it's slow, but it's a learning curve. People have to have that information first, and then they'll delve into it, I'm sure.