Environment Committee on June 18th, 2015

[Arlene Strom]

It is things like that. At Fort McKay, it was about a space where people could come together. It's about helping to support business plans. It's about the skills that are needed to run a business. It's really capacity-building that we're looking at, but it's also some of the practical things about just coming together in a space where you can work on your business.

[Lawrence Toet, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

As you go through that process, are you tracking at all the success of these companies and their longevity? Do they have that foundation so when the scaffolding, as you referred to it, is removed they are able to continue on?

[Arlene Strom]

It's early days, so we're still working together with the Tsuu T'ina folks and the businesses there. We're still involved in that program. However, I'm going to take that away, because I think it's a really important piece that we continue to understand whether we've been successful and to learn from that.

[Lawrence Toet, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

The final item that I wanted to talk to you a little bit about is the Energy Futures Lab. Could you also let us know about some of the work that's going on in the Energy Futures Lab and the partnerships that are involved in that?

[Arlene Strom]

Sure. The lab is just kicking off. In fact, there's an application process to become a fellow in the lab. That's what we call the people who will participate over the next two years. The applications close on June 30. Suncor is sending a representative because of our sponsorship and support of the program. There will be about 30 fellows that will walk together through this program over about 18 months. They will come together and will be spending about 10 to 12 days over that 18-month period in a lab setting where they'll be working through understanding one another's perspectives, the energy future that we need, and working through policy solutions and what those look like.

The Natural Step has a well-defined process that it uses in this lab. We're very excited about it. The Banff Centre is offering facilities and support, as is the Pembina Institute. We're proud of that partnership with Natural Step.

[The Chair, Conservative, Harold Albrecht]

Thank you, Mr. Toet. We have two more people on the questioning list, Mr. Bevington and Mr. Woodworth.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Northwest Territories, NT]

Ms. Grondin, I just wanted to touch back on that energy issue, because in the Northwest Territories we built our communities around mines and we built hydroelectric facilities to service those mines. Out of that, we got an electrical system that is almost 100% renewable in the southern part of our territory, and that was really good.

When you talk about wind power, have you worked with the community of Baker Lake? That is the resource that they have in that area. Consider working with Baker Lake, with the federal government perhaps even as a partner because the federal government puts a lot of money into Nunavut, to start looking at the construction of these facilities that could be used in perpetuity as well by the community of Baker Lake.

[Louise Grondin]

Actually, energy is about 25% of our costs. Even from a business point of view, it is essential that we look at it.

At the same time, you're absolutely right that Nunavut needs energy. Nunavut is, I think, 22 communities spread out through the territory and they're all operating their electricity out of diesel generators. For sure, we need to partner with them to find better solutions and we have been discussing this with them.

We're also part of the Hudson Bay round table with Manitoba, and we're looking at hydroelectricity, maybe imported from Manitoba, as well. We're talking to the—

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Northwest Territories, NT]

Thank you very much. I just have very limited time and I wanted to ask Ms. Strom a question as well.

In the process that you're using now for upgrading, you're coking the materials. Is that correct?

[Arlene Strom]

Yes, we use coke-fired boilers.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Northwest Territories, NT]

The waste product from the coke-fired boilers is petro-coke. Are you using that for cogenerating electricity now in your facility?

[Arlene Strom]

We do have a significant cogeneration facility. Yes, we do.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Northwest Territories, NT]

You're using one of the dirtiest products for cogeneration. This petro-coke really has the highest CO₂ emissions level of any product that you could probably burn in this world to make electricity. Is there any sense that perhaps you should look at moving back to upgrading processes where you're adding hydrogen rather than taking it away, where you're not creating a product that has these very deleterious environmental concerns?

[Arlene Strom]

I'm not a technical expert, but our cogeneration facility is actually a place where we generate and contribute lower carbon emissions to the power grid than coal-fired power. As part of a total energy system, we believe that cogeneration is one mechanism we can use to lower the footprint of the power system in Alberta.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Northwest Territories, NT]

Yes, but I was speaking specifically of the petro-coke.

[The Chair, Conservative, Harold Albrecht]

Can I just interrupt for a minute, please? Both sides of the table have certainly veered from the intent of our committee study this morning, which I think is probably unfair to our witnesses, who were specifically called to talk about issues and how they're cooperating in the non-governmental sector on environmental initiatives. I just want to put that on the table. I don't want to cause any sense of embarrassment to our witnesses for not being prepared for issues that we really didn't give them a chance to prepare for.

Mr. Bevington, proceed.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Northwest Territories, NT]

How much time do I have left?

[The Chair, Conservative, Harold Albrecht]

You still have a minute, and I didn't keep the clock running.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Northwest Territories, NT]

Well, in the upgrading process, it's certainly one process where CO₂ emissions are very high. What's Suncor's plan for upgrading in the future?

[Arlene Strom]

Well, upgrading remains an important part of our total process.

I would like to say that we have set environmental goals for our company over a six-year period. We have goals right now on energy intensity, to address the very questions you're talking about. We're in the process of setting new long-term goals for our company around GHG emissions and other important areas around the environment and social issues. We believe that it's very important to set performance improvement goals so that we're continually improving our performance. We see it in energy efficiency, but also in step-change places, where we can change technologies.

[The Chair, Conservative, Harold Albrecht]

Thank you.

Mr. Woodworth, please, for five minutes.

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for coming today. It's really a very, very refreshing bit of evidence we've heard about the environmental initiatives your companies are taking. Without singling out either one of you too much, I just want to say to Madame Grondin that the list of the initiatives your company has undertaken over the years is very, very impressive. It's quite a contrast to some of the doom and gloom that we sometimes hear from certain quarters, just to know that corporate responsibility is alive and well in Canada, and in particular in your company.

I have a briefing note that tells me that your company has been named as one of the best 50 corporate citizens in Canada for three years in a row by Corporate Knights, and is an annual fixture on the Jantzi Social Index listing for its relationship with indigenous people. Are my notes correct in that respect, Madame Grondin?

[Louise Grondin]

Yes. Thank you for pointing that out.

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Well, it is very impressive.

What I'd really like to do is to get to the nub of the issue—namely, how did it come to be? What is it that motivates the decision-makers in your company to engage in so many collaborative community-oriented environmental initiatives?

I'm asking that question so that I can understand how this committee can make recommendations about motivating other companies to do the same thing. If we can understand the motivation in your company, perhaps we can share that.

[Louise Grondin]

I believe it comes from the value system. If you look at our overall business, we are good business partners. You can ask the market: we are good business partners in general. We are good neighbours. We talk to our communities. We are a good employer. It is based on the value system, really.

It's the same thing when we deal with regulators. We're not confrontational, because we think they have a job to do, we have a job to do, and somewhere we want the same thing. We want to protect the environment. My job is to protect the environment, and I believe the ministry of the environment of any jurisdiction has the same job. Somewhere we meet in a common goal.

That's how we do things: we establish common goals. It's because of our value system that we have a very strong fabric. It might sound cheesy, but our company was founded by Paul Penna, who had a very strong value system. To this day we keep that alive. Our employees are attracted to our company because of that.

There are a lot of positives in being responsible.