Environment Committee on April 19th, 2016

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

I understand.

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

—so retrofits in social housing was one of them.

We now are in a process where we want to hear from the provinces and territories—

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Okay, that's fine.

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

—about how we can make the most cost-effective investments because we have obviously limited resources—

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Minister, you'll understand my time is very limited.

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

—and so we will be considering them.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

I'm trying to keep my questions fairly brief and straightforward in order to get as many questions through as we can.

Your party committed to removing the subsidy to oil and gas; in fact, here is the quote: “We will fulfill [Canada's] G20 commitment”—which the previous government made in 2009—“and phase out subsidies for the fossil fuel industry”.

Yet budget 2016 locks in those very same subsidies until 2025. Does this not both open and shut the door at the same time? Is this not the sucking and blowing we've seen from federal governments for years when it comes to carbon emissions?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I'm very glad to reconfirm our commitment to eliminating fossil fuel subsidies. That is extremely important; in fact, we reiterated this in our declaration with the United States.

I am working with the finance minister on looking at how we can do that.

Today I was actually at an announcement with Céline Bak, with Analytica, talking about how we need more innovation in the clean tech sector, so that is part of this. We need to be looking at opportunities for clean tech companies to succeed.

In direct answer to your question, yes, we are looking at how we can eliminate fossil fuel subsidies.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Yet that wasn't your commitment to the Canadian people. Your commitment to the Canadian people is, “We will fulfill [Canada's] G-20 commitment”, which was already six years old at the time that you made the commitment. Now we're looking at another 10 years to go by before any action is done on this.

Here is a question. When will Canada's emissions begin to go down?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I'm hoping as soon as possible. We had a government unfortunately for the last 10 years—

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Agreed.

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

—that did not make the necessary investments or create the necessary market signals that were key to doing that.

You can't bend a curve overnight—

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Sure.

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

—so, as you know, we are now working through a process with the provinces and territories that is really about how we're going to be serious about making a commitment.

I have always said that Canadians expect a plan, and we are developing that plan, which includes putting a price on carbon, which includes looking at specific opportunities to reduce emissions through the mitigation working group. Any suggestions would certainly be welcome in that regard.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Sure. Oh, we have many.

Somewhere between “not overnight” and “as soon as possible” isn't much of a date. Canadians do want to know when that curve bends.

When we go to New York and sign that commitment on Earth Day we will be using Mr. Harper's targets that are woeful and inadequate in meeting our global commitments.

Here's the last question. You committed to this 1.5°C ambition. When asked in Paris whether you had done any translation as to what that target would actually mean for Canada, or if any analysis had been done, your response was “no”. You understand the preoccupation from Canadians who have been through this movie before, where a commitment was made without a plan to get there. Why was no analysis done before Canada put its signature on a 1.5°C emission curve?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I was very proud to be a part of the Canadian delegation in Paris. I was very proud that we worked very constructively with other partners in the international community. We know that we need to reduce our emissions below 2°C, striving for 1.5°C. That is what we worked extremely hard to get 195 countries to agree to, and now we are doing the hard work to figure out what the plan is so that Canada can meet its international obligations. I take that extremely seriously, and at the end of six months you will see the plan to do that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

Thank you.

Mr. Fisher.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Thank you, Minister and gentlemen.

Minister, as per your mandate letter, you're to work with the Minister of Infrastructure and Communities to make new investments in green infrastructure. I've said it before, and I've said it here at this committee, real environmental leadership starts with us here in government. I'll use a few examples from here on the Hill.

You walk into a washroom in Centre Block, the radiator's blasting at 110 degrees, and someone's opened a window because it's too hot. We have gas-powered vans driving around in circles all day long, driving MPs around, when we should have electric. We should have charging stations. We should have bike racks. We should have bike-share. I would happily take a bike and go down to Confederation after each meeting.

There are many other opportunities just right here, not counting the federal government across the board, and not counting what you've spoken about with municipal governments. I know that in my municipality, Halifax Regional Municipality, they did the solar city program. Now there's the green municipal fund as well.

There are a lot of people doing individual things at government, but what ways do you think we can lead by example—us specifically—to send the message to industry and Canadians that we're serious about this in the hope that they will follow our example?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Thank you very much. That is a really critical question. Nothing drives me crazier than the example you said, where you have a furnace blowing and it's so hot you have to open the window.

We know we can do a lot better. In government procurement, clearly we need to be doing a lot more and thinking across the board on how we do better. I provided one example, that of social housing. We cannot be supporting social housing providers without having some expectation that we'll be building energy-efficient housing. Certainly, through the infrastructure money we're investing, whether it's in social infrastructure, obviously public transit, or green infrastructure, we need to make sure we have standards so that we actually get reductions in emissions.

In terms of the whole-of-government approach, I think that's very important. We're looking at Government of Canada buildings. How do we ensure that they are at the highest standards when it comes to efficiency?

In terms of electric vehicles, I'm hopefully changing soon—I'm looking at my deputy—to an electric vehicle. I have a hybrid, but I would really like to have an electric vehicle. We have an electric vehicle charging station at Environment and Climate Change Canada, but we should have that across the board. Our fleet should be electric vehicles. We absolutely do need to be leading by example.

On a personal note, I'm a huge cyclist. It just drives me crazy that there are no bike racks out in front of Parliament Hill. I think if you have them out there, people will see, and be reminded, that often it's actually faster to get around by bike.

I'm happy to lend you a bike, Darren.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

I'm happy to take it.

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I think you're absolutely right that there are lots of ways where, in particular through procurement, we can do a better job, department by department, looking at how to ensure that we have the best practices.

I will give a shout-out to many provinces, that they look at how they can reduce their emissions, how they become a net zero government. I think there are certainly ways we could do better. I'd be very interested in hearing the committee's view in this regard.

The good news is that as part of the working group process with the provinces and territories, as part of the mitigation working group, there's a sub-working group on government procurement, where I'll be challenging our government to look at what we are doing.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

If your job is to protect Canada's fresh water by using education, geomapping, watershed protection, and investments in better waste water treatment, and you're committed to setting higher air quality standards, you probably know that I've introduced my private member's bill, which I'll put in a plug for, the national strategy for the safe disposal of lamps containing mercury act. My bill requests that you work with provincial and territorial governments across Canada to develop a strong strategy to keep mercury out of our waterways and our air.

Can you let us know here in the committee what other measures you're taking that would complement this strategy?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Thank you very much. I appreciate your bill. We are studying the bill. Clearly the safe disposal of mercury-containing lamps is a very important issue.

We're looking at a variety of different ways that we can reduce waste water. As you may recall, one of the first things I had to address was the issue of waste water disposal in Montreal. That was a really tough file. But why was I having to make a decision, which was the best decision, based on the science? I had to do it because the infrastructure was just not there.

I think you've seen the commitments on infrastructure in terms of fresh water. We have a number of different programs. I'm happy to follow up with you. I think I'm going to run out of time here.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

You've got within a minute. You're okay.

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Air quality is certainly something we look at, along with all the measures we can be taking to ensure that we have cleaner air. In terms of specific measures, probably my deputy can talk more about some examples

I certainly appreciate when we get thoughtful suggestions from parliamentarians about things we could be doing better. Both water and air are very big priorities for the department.