Evidence of meeting #111 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was definition.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte
Let's not prejudge it. Let's just try to work on each one as fast as we can.
I'm just looking at this, and it doesn't seem consistent. I know you are changing it, but it's taking the element and the definition that indicates that the minister has some jurisdiction here in designating a project. It wouldn't be consistent, so my ruling is that it's not consistent.
12:25 p.m.
NDP
Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
It is consistent. My amendment NDP-20 completely changes that section. It has no relation.
12:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte
Linda, I'm just going to tell you that, in your amendment NDP-20, you give the minister some powers, which you are taking away in the definition over in “designated project”, so they don't—
12:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte
Well, I'm just letting you know that I assume things are going to pass until the time—
12:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte
—and we make sure that we're legislatively accurate in what we're doing. If we pass this one, then it gives you a problem in your next one.
12:25 p.m.
NDP
Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
No, because my wording for a new section 9 doesn't even talk about “designate”, so there is no conflict.
12:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte
I think you are not hearing it from me, so let me ask the legislative clerk if he can explain it better than I did.
12:25 p.m.
Olivier Champagne Procedural Clerk
The way I see it, it is precisely because in NDP-20 you are removing the concept of designation. In order for the bill to be consistent, it needs to be removed in the definition as well. Otherwise, the bill is inconsistent. There are missing elements. That's why I think they have to be together to work.
12:25 p.m.
NDP
12:25 p.m.
Procedural Clerk
There is no notion of the minister making a designation.
12:25 p.m.
NDP
Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
That's correct. In my new section 9, there is no mention of the word “designate”. Exactly.
12:25 p.m.
Procedural Clerk
Exactly. It wouldn't make sense to, let's say, defeat NDP-4 and adopt NDP-20. We can ask the officials.
12:25 p.m.
NDP
Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
I beg to differ. If you look at my NDP-20, frankly, it's 100% consistent with the bill I already have, which was tabled in the House. It doesn't even mention the word “designate”, so there is no contradiction in it.
12:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte
Okay. We're going to move ahead.
Is there any other discussion on this amendment?
Does NDP-4 carry?
(Amendment negatived: nays 8; yeas 1 [See Minutes of Proceedings])
12:25 p.m.
NDP
Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
I don't even know why I bother.
The recommendation is to replace line 16 on page 4 to add in “regardless of whether the effects are within the control of a proponent, that would permit the carrying out, in whole or”, and then it says “in part”.
That clarifies the best practice that all potential effects of a project are assessed, whether or not the proponent directly controls them. There are a good number of legal organizations that have proposed this, including Ecojustice, Nature Canada, and West Coast Environmental Law.
12:25 p.m.
An hon. member
A recorded vote please.
12:30 p.m.
NDP
Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
If you go to page 4, lines 23 to 24 of the bill, there is the definition of "effects". The first thing the amendment does is to add the word “cultural”. We have had as recently as today a comment, in addition to all the recommendations by many of the witnesses and in many of the briefs, including indigenous ones, that cultural heritage should be included. After all, it is part of the SDG, according to Julie Abouchar, Toronto partner of Willms & Shier Environmental Lawyers. She says that cultural heritage needs to be considered when companies conduct environmental assessments. That includes the elders through interviews, incorporating oral histories and getting traditional knowledge from the people impacted by the project, including their feelings of the land.