Environment Committee on June 5th, 2018

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you very much.

Minister, on May 25 of this year, you told the House, “Almost 800,000 people die each year from pollution.”

Which number is correct?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Let me clarify. It's almost 800,000, closer to one million, probably, worldwide, who die from pollution, but in Canada—

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Okay. Then why in the House, on May 25—

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

No, sorry, I'm actually going to answer your question.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

—did you say 800,000?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

If you would like me to answer your question, I'm happy to.

I now have the statistic. Thank you to my very able deputy minister.

We know air pollution has resulted in 14,400 premature deaths, which is—

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you, Minister.

Minister, why is the number you gave on May 25—

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

—over $110 billion per year in socio-economic terms.

[Mike Bossio, Liberal, Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON]

I have a point of order, Madam Chair—

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

Hold on, everybody.

If it's going to devolve into this, it's going to be a problem. I know she was in the middle of answering and I know sometimes you want the question to not be answered any more because you're running out of time.

[An hon. member]

Well, she is running out of time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

At the moment, we're stopped.

It would be helpful if we don't run out of time and you just give the minister a chance to finish the question. Not if she's running on—I get it—but just let her finish the original question and then we can move on to the next one. That will stop the interruptions from the other side of the table.

Thank you.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

As I said, why is that number different from the 7,700 reported by The Globe and Mail? The number you gave in the House is almost 10 times larger than this number as reported. How could there be such huge discrepancies? With inaccurate facts and hyperbole such as this, how can Canadians take your claims seriously on the need for climate action?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I hope Canadians take my claims seriously because we do it, unlike the previous government, based on science, evidence, and fact. It's 14,400 premature deaths every year in Canada from pollution. That's $110 billion per year in socio-economic terms, which I know the Conservative party would be very concerned about. The estimate is 800,000 globally and we think it's higher.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

But it's completely inaccurate.

Minister, you speak all the time of concern for future generations in regard to the need to act on this environment. What do you say to all the young families in my riding who no longer have jobs today as a result of your government's inaction and poor policies?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I'd just like to correct the record: my facts are accurate.

We are growing the economy. I'm quite confused.... We've added 600,000 jobs to the economy. We're the fastest-growing economy in the G7. The previous government had a very poor economic record and was not creating jobs and also not taking action on the environment, so lose-lose. We're focused on win-win for Canadians: reducing emissions, protecting our environment, growing our economy, and creating good jobs.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Minister, can you explain to the committee how it is possible to compost and recycle if you can't afford food to put on the table for your family because you don't have a job?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Most Canadians I talk to actually really care about the environment. They really want to do right by the environment. They want opportunities to waste less. They want opportunities to save money by having energy efficiency measures, and that's what we're doing. I work with all Canadians. I work with people who don't have a lot of resources so that they can save money through energy efficiency measures. When you look at our social housing investment, that should be at the highest standard so that people who have no money pay less on their hydro bills. That's my focus, and I will continue to do that. We understand that the environment and the economy go together.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Minister, do you know what carbon leakage is?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I do know what carbon leakage is, but do you want me to explain it to your side or...? Carbon—

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

No, thank you, Minister. I'll explain it. Carbon leakage is where, from policies, carbon production is too costly and is relocated to areas with less stringent environmental rules, actually leading to higher emissions globally. Out of the top 10 oil-producing countries in the world, Canada is by far ranked the best in terms of environmental performance. If oil and gas are going to be produced in the world, why shouldn't it be done by this country, Canada, with the highest environmental standards?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I agree.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you very much for agreeing with that, Minister. I'm very much appreciative.

Minister, I'd like to go back again: how many deaths in Canada do you think are due every year to pollution?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I'm not entirely sure I can repeat this again. We look at estimates from air pollution from industry, transportation, and other human activities, resulting in 14,400 premature deaths, but it's also the economic costs: $110 billion per year in socio-economic terms. When we look at the number of people, when we look at the coal phase-out in Ontario, we had 53 less smog days—53 to zero.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you, Minister.

Madam Chair, I will pass my last minute to Mr. Clarke.