Environment Committee on June 5th, 2018

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

A point of order, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

What's the point of order?

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

I accept her answer, but I would like to ask another question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

You can ask another question at any time. Please go ahead.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Madam Minister, will having an additional $1 billion have a greater impact on the environment? Are you short of money, despite the $500 million allocated to you this year? Do you need more money?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I'm not sure I fully understood your question.

In fact, we have a plan and the main estimates. We said we had an increase of $128.6 million.

I'll turn things over to the deputy minister, who may be able to provide more details.

[Stephen Lucas, Deputy Minister, Department of the Environment]

In fact, this represents an increase to the low-carbon economy fund and an investment in freshwater resources and species at risk.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you.

I would like to ask one last question.

How much time do I have left, Madam Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

You have around one minute.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

I would like to ask the minister a very simple question.

The government invested $4.5 billion in a 65-year-old pipeline, an existing facility owned by an American company.

Wouldn't it have been more profitable to invest this $4.5 million in policies, technologies or innovation to improve the environment and sustainable development?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

We understand that the environment and the economy go hand in hand. So we have acted on the environment and on climate change. We also conducted a rigorous environmental assessment of this project.

I'm quite surprised, though, that the Conservative member might be suggesting that they don't think that the Trans Mountain expansion project should go ahead.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Actually, we are concerned about the $4.5 billion that have been invested in an existing pipeline in the United States. Nothing concrete is being done for the environment in Canada with this money.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

There wasn't any questioning on that point, but maybe we can pick that up in the next round.

Next up is Mr. Boulerice.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I would like to thank the minister for finding the time to be with us today. I know that it was a bit complicated and that there was a mix-up, but she's here.

I'll try to change the tone of the discussion. Madam Minister, I'm going to ask you a few specific questions, and I would ask you to provide some very specific and short answers because you obviously can't spend much time with us today.

My first question is very simple. What are the subsidies to oil and gas companies for the 2017-18 fiscal year?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

We said we needed to address those subsidies. I'm looking at the regulatory approach, and the department is looking at the other grants. We and our G20 counterparts have agreed to eliminate these subsidies by 2025.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

I know that you have set the objective of eliminating them by 2025.

But the question I was asking was this: What are the government subsidies to oil and gas companies for the 2017-18 fiscal year? The answer needs to be a number.

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

As I said earlier, we are conducting an analysis, because it is really important. On a personal note, I agree with you that we must ensure that what we do makes sense, and that the environment and the economy work together.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Do you agree with the Auditor General, who said last May that your government did not have a clear definition of what a fossil energy subsidy is? So if you can't even define what it is and you have no idea what the figure is, how can you act to eliminate these subsidies when you don't even know what you're talking about?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

In fact, we have to have a definition first to be able to give you a number. So we're doing fact-based analysis. I think it's really important. I agree with you that our government must do these analyses, and that's what we promised in a previous budget document. We have already cut some subsidies, and we will see what more we can do.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

It is fascinating to see how long the analysis can drag on with the Liberals. I am a little disappointed to see that, after three years, you have neither an action plan nor a clear definition of what a subsidy to the oil companies is.

You talked about the G20 process where countries will carry out indirect monitoring, and then they'll give another country the task of verifying what mechanisms are in place to reduce these subsidies to oil and gas companies. Canada has received an invitation from Argentina, but your government hasn't yet responded. What are you waiting for?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Argentina has extended this invitation, which we are in the process of reviewing.

I think it's important for everyone to work together, because it's not an easy file. We have taken the leadership. We do more than just consult, as we saw with the Bill C-69: we listen to people, and we move bills forward.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Speaking of leadership, Madam Minister, we in the NDP are very disappointed by your government's lack of leadership. Canada is the only G7 country that does not yet have an action plan or national strategy to reduce the use of plastics.

What are you waiting for? Will you soon commit to developing this strategy?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

It is really important to tackle plastic waste. It creates the equivalent of one full truck a minute, so much so that there is sometimes more plastic than fish in the oceans. Here again, we are taking the lead on this issue. The Prime Minister, the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans and I are pushing for an international plastics charter. Here at home, we have already announced that we will eliminate microbeads, but we still have work to do.

Last week my counterparts and I met to develop a plan. We must do this not only with the provinces and territories, but also with the companies. In fact, I was really pleased to hear representatives from a company like Unilever say that producers also have a responsibility on this issue. So we are all working together.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

I would have liked a date on the federal government's action plan to reduce the use of plastics. You tell me that we play a leadership role. Why is it then that after Ms. May applauded London's decision to ban plastic straws, the Prime Minister said he would not ban them? It may seem like a small detail, but these straws are very polluting and have a catastrophic impact on turtles and fish around the world. You say you are leaders, but every time there is a good idea, you don't adopt it.

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I think we accept a lot of good ideas, but we have to work with the provinces and territories. Canada is a federation. Quebec understands this very well and isn't happy when we act without it. I will continue to work with the provinces and territories, including Quebec, and with the municipalities. I am pleased to see that municipalities have undertaken initiatives. Today, people from Mill Street Brewery said that their company would no longer use plastic straws. It shows how everyone can take action.