Evidence of meeting #135 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was waste.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:10 p.m.
Co-Owner, Bon Eco Design
Absolutely, but I agree with you that it would take a lot of labour to get that in place.
On incentives, also sometimes businesses throw away toxic waste, things they don't want people to know about.
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC
You're right, but there's also the fact that companies pay a lot of money to dispose of residue. The wheel keeps spinning. I still think we have a way out. It is not the only solution, but it is one solution. As I say in my riding, it is a matter of doing one little thing at a time. I think we should invest funds to encourage the public to take action and force our companies to take very significant steps. That is the end of my comment.
Thank you very much.
I will now ask Mr. Larocque a question about the world of forestry.
Mr. Larocque, you said in your presentation that the world of forestry had made a commitment for 2030 and that it had been made in 2016.
In concrete terms, what has the industry done since then to improve its environmental performance?
5:15 p.m.
Senior Vice-President, Forest Products Association of Canada
We have invested about $200 million in processing bioproducts. They may not be on the market yet, but we are in the process of building plants. There have been reductions at the plants. We started with the easiest targets. I would like to point out, with regard to the next step, the 30 megatonnes, that half of that is in our forests. It is taking a little more time and work. For the other half, 15% comes from our plants. The rest is from new products, and for that, we are waiting for the carbon policies.
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC
I am familiar with wood being used for high-rise construction. The material absorbs carbon. In the Quebec City area, we have done pilot projects. At that time, my work was with the provincial government. Wood has been shown to be effective and even more fire-resistant than other materials. I find that things are moving slowly and that the problem is not being addressed in the right way.
Given that we know the positive impacts of the technologies, materials and some solutions, should we not ask our governments to accelerate the acceptance? I don't know what you think, Mr. Rosaasen and Mr. Larocque. Everyone has shown that there are solutions. We have talked about technologies. We have expertise in Canada. Shouldn't we move faster to accept this material and adjust the market so that we can reduce our carbon footprint?
I proposed the registry solution to Ms. Butts and I have one that your industry may be interested in as well.
5:15 p.m.
Senior Vice-President, Forest Products Association of Canada
We are hoping for a 2020 timeline for the National Building Code.
5:15 p.m.
Senior Vice-President, Forest Products Association of Canada
We are 14 months from that date, but we expect that, in 2020, the National Building Code will allow us to build up to 12 floors in Canada. That will be a big change.
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC
Do you understand why I don't believe in a carbon tax?
Thank you very much.
5:15 p.m.
Mr. John Aldag (Cloverdale—Langley City, Lib.)
Thanks.
Wayne, you have the last six minutes.
5:15 p.m.
Kootenay—Columbia, NDP
Thank you.
I want to talk about agriculture for a minute, Mr. McCabe. You talked earlier about the opportunities in agriculture to use waste products for biofuel and bioenergy. I couldn't help but reflect on how historically the early settlers burned buffalo chips to keep warm in the winter, when we had bison across the land. We're going back to where we started from, I guess, in some ways. I wonder if you could talk a little bit about the opportunities you see for using waste agricultural products going forward.
5:15 p.m.
Director, Biological Carbon Canada
First, with due respect, sir, we don't have waste in agriculture. We have opportunities.
5:15 p.m.
Director, Biological Carbon Canada
I'm going to pick on a corn plant and take you through the harvest of a corn plant. We have been harvesting corn for many years now. In 1975, if I had gone into a restaurant—I would have been in grade 9—and told someone I had 100-bushels-to-the-acre corn, I would have been told I was a liar and a snot-nosed brat and to get out. The reality is that here we are, heading rapidly towards 2025, and in Ontario I believe the average yield of corn this year will be very close to 180 bushels to the acre.
The significance of this is that we are generally harvesting only the corn kernels. That means there's the corncob, cornstalk, corn leaves and all the rest of that kind of stuff. We harvest those corn kernels and we send them off to be livestock feed or to be sugars used for humans in the production of a plethora of products. The reality is that all that other stuff remains. The problem with that stuff that remains now is that it's in excess of what the soil needs for its continued existence. We have soils in Canada that desperately need LIDAR and a national application of that or to get the soil survey information done.
Let's go back to the residue for a minute. If all that residue is left there in the spring, I can't plant. So I'm now harvesting some of that residue, leaving most of it there, so that the residue can go to a plant and they can extract sugars out of that cellulosic material—not grain corn, but cellulosic material. That's why nothing about the language we're using here reflects reality, in some cases. I can't offer you second-generation ethanol, because I don't know what it is. I know that I grew corn to sell at the Chicago Board of Trade for a profit. I know that if your parents didn't have kids, you probably won't either. That means if I don't grow the corn to make a profit someplace, I'm not going to give you cornstalks.
Those cornstalks now are not waste. They are, again, another portion or another turn on that circular economy that can go to be sugars, chemicals, fuels or natural gas. We can move it down through the system. Sarnia, Ontario, is the starting point for that.
5:20 p.m.
Kootenay—Columbia, NDP
In terms of our study, then, how does that all relate to our carbon footprint and a better future?
5:20 p.m.
Director, Biological Carbon Canada
The carbon footprint issue is that off that same acre of land that in 1975 was producing 100 bushels.... You can do the math; it's 56 pounds a bushel. You can crank out how many tonnes and all the rest of it. Essentially, we've doubled the yield on that one acre of land in this period of time. That means we reduced our environmental footprint in an overall fashion.
We're also pulling back now the ethanol to take it to the transportation sector, and allowing that to be lowering our emissions. We've taken the other transportation fuels, such as from Nevin's canola or from soybean, for biodiesel. That's if we could get this stuff up; we have a 30-megatonne ask coming at us from the federal government to make fuels a reality, but the bureaucracy has stalled that program from going forward. We don't know where it's going to be. It's back to the point that without clear policy, we can't move this stuff. You can't invest without clear policy.
5:20 p.m.
Kootenay—Columbia, NDP
I want to bring it back to the federal government's role, which is of course why we're here. What do you think the federal government should be doing better, or more of, in order to help your industry—again, particularly focusing on greenhouse gas reduction and a better future?
5:20 p.m.
Director, Biological Carbon Canada
Number one, we need the base data for the long term. That means we have to get the LIDAR and a clearer understanding of our soils.
Two, we need to have clear signals in policy, and that means a price on carbon. I'm not referring to a carbon tax and I'm not referring to cap and trade, because those are mechanisms for putting on a price. I would prefer a cap-and-trade approach. It's probably not going to happen, because politically that is not the best route when you're looking at 2019.
Finally, invest in your natural resource sectors. We are the base of this country. We are leaders in the world with our opportunities. We have the area. Please unharness us to go ahead.
5:25 p.m.
Mr. John Aldag (Cloverdale—Langley City, Lib.)
That concludes the time we had scheduled for today. I want to thank all six of our guests today for being here and for their testimony.
This has been perhaps one of the less spirited conversations we've had in the last bit. I appreciate everybody on all sides of the table really squeezing good information out of our witnesses today.
To the witnesses, if you have any additional thoughts you would like to submit to us, or if you have any follow-up you want to provide, you can do that through the clerk. He'll get that information to the analysts. We would ask you to keep it to 10 pages, or up to 10, just for translation purposes.
With that, have a great weekend, everybody. If you're going home, safe travels. We'll see you again on Tuesday.
The meeting is adjourned.