Environment Committee on April 29th, 2019

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

It's not getting you there now.

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

What makes me really sad, and I say this with great honesty, is that we can't come together. This was the plan that was negotiated with provinces and territories. But Conservative premiers, what are they doing? They are going back on the commitments that were made.

As I said, when the Province of Ontario cut their cap and trade system, when they made it free to pollute, that increased the amount of pollution by 30 coal-fired units. Doing less, not more, in the face of what we are seeing right now is unconscionable. We have a responsibility to Canadians to tackle climate change and grow our economy, and we can do it in an affordable way while it creates good jobs. That is exactly what we're doing, and we're going to continue to do.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Thank you.

We will now move over to Mr. Amos and Mr. Fisher.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Thank you.

Minister, this committee heard overwhelming evidence that putting a price on pollution is the most effective way to reduce emissions while protecting Canadians' pocketbooks.

Back on January 1, the Province of Nova Scotia enacted a plan to tackle climate change by putting a price on pollution through a cap and trade program. Because of their efforts, Nova Scotians did not see noticeable increases in costs. Instead, Nova Scotians are benefiting from increased efficiency programs.

Last week—you referenced this earlier—news broke that Andrew Scheer had been secretly meeting with oil lobbyists, yet the Conservatives still have not put forward a plan to combat climate change. They've not even really joined the conversation, and we see Canadians heavily impacted today. We see wildfires in B.C. and across the country. We see massive flooding in New Brunswick, Ontario and Quebec and serious sea level rise in Nova Scotia. Canadians are demanding action on climate change.

Minister, can you please detail how our government's approach to combatting climate change is different from, say, maybe the Conservatives'?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

We're already paying the cost of climate change right now. We've gone from $400 million in costs a decade ago to $2 billion. The costs are estimated to rise to $43 billion or more.

We're paying the costs, and we have a huge economic opportunity of clean growth. You can tackle climate change, grow the economy and create good jobs, and do it in an affordable way. Let's be clear: with a price on pollution, we're giving the money back. All the money is going back to Canadians. That means that 80% of them are better off; it is the Parliamentary Budget Officer who is saying that the 20% who are going to pay more are the wealthiest.

We need to take action on climate change, but the way you develop a climate plan is by actually working with Canadians. It's doing the hard work over a full year, negotiating with provinces and territories, indigenous peoples and cities, hearing from Canadians of all sorts—environmentalists, young people. You don't make a climate plan in secret meetings with oil lobbyists. You simply don't. That is not what the future looks like.

I am the environment minister for energy workers as well as young people, people who live in the north and people who live in the south, and we have a responsibility. We can show the world how you can tackle climate change while you're a natural resources-based economy, and how you can do it in an affordable way by creating jobs. I'm proud that we have the Carbon Pricing Leadership Coalition, where you have the major companies in Canada stepping up and saying, yes, we have to put a price on pollution. I'm proud that we have young people marching on the street demanding more of us, not less.

We all need to take climate change extremely seriously. It is not just an environmental issue. It is an economic issue. It is a health issue. It is an existential issue for indigenous peoples and for people who live in small island developing states where they are literally going under water, and, as the Pope has said, it is a moral issue.

We need to continue acting on climate change. We have a plan that we are working hard on. We will meet our targets and then, you know what, we're going to do more because we need to do more. The whole world needs to do more, but hard things are hard. It's hard for countries around the world. I was really pleased to be hosting a nature summit last week in Montreal, where governments were talking about how we can do more on climate change through nature-based solutions. That's amazing.

That's why here in Canada we have Stephen Guilbeault,

a leading Quebec environmentalist who is helping us do more by telling us how Canada can reduce its emissions in the transportation sector and how to build greener buildings.

Tamara Vrooman, who is the head of Vancity, is also providing us solutions. I was in Vancouver seeing an affordable housing build that is net zero. How awesome is that? We can do amazing things. We have the ingenuity. We are Canadians. We can tackle climate change. We live in one of the coldest—and sometimes one of the hottest—countries, and we can build better. We can get around better. We can do it all while creating good jobs and making life affordable and bringing folks together. That is what we are committed to doing. That is what I will continue spending every single waking moment doing. I am a competitive swimmer. We have a goal. We've set the goal. Every single day we're going to continue working on this goal. I'm going to do everything I can, my damnedest, to bring people together so we can do this.

[William Amos, Liberal, Pontiac, QC]

Minister, you'll recall that in early 2018, along with several colleagues here on the environment committee, I wrote a letter to the finance minister, Bill Morneau. One hundred and fifteen MPs and senators signed. The one Conservative was in fact a senator. They signed nonetheless. We had all sorts of support and we urged for much higher levels of financing for protected areas. You've spoken about this a bit today.

When $1.3 billion was allocated, a whole bunch of us were just so proud of our government because it took courage. That put our money where our conservation mouth was. As a member of Parliament for Pontiac, I was just so proud.

I know that my constituents want more conservation measures in their region, the national capital region. Through the Canada nature fund, $175 million is available. There is a very interesting proposal from the Outaouais region. What can you tell us about the decisions on that matter?

When can Canadians expect decisions from the Canada nature fund, and particularly what would you have to say to those people in the national capital region and in the Outaouais?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

As you know, I'm a member from the national capital region. I'm very proud to represent Ottawa Centre. I think we have an opportunity to be the greenest capital, and I think that includes our national capital. That has value. Having a brand in which you are the greenest capital will attract more tourism, will create more jobs, but it's also just an awesome thing for people to be able to go and enjoy nature. We need nature-based solutions to the impacts of climate change, and those help us mitigate emissions.

We have a process through which we're accepting applications right now. You heard from your colleague. He was very excited about the success of the Quick Start money that will help support conservation for Haligonians. We have announced a number of different initiatives including protecting the greenbelt in Montreal. Also, there will be big pieces in our north with indigenous people.

So stay tuned. We're certainly looking at all of the applications to make sure they are consistent with the guidelines, but we think there's an opportunity to do a lot more.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Thank you.

Ms. Mathyssen, you have the final round of questions for three minutes.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I've been listening with great interest in regard to the various reports that are received. I have a question about the commissioner of the environment and sustainable development, who recently tabled two audits that found that the government does not have a complete inventory of fossil fuel subsidies and is not considering environmental factors on a basis equal to that for economic considerations, and that's troubling.

When will the department be transparent about fossil fuel subsidies and phase them out?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

We've been clear that we need to eliminate inefficient fossil fuel subsidies, and we've said we will do so by 2025. Through the tax system, we've already eliminated nine out of 10 fossil fuel subsidies. We know we need to be doing more.

We have also looked at and put out a consultation paper to hear from Canadians about what would constitute a non-tax inefficient fossil fuel subsidy. I think we need to have serious reflection on that, because that might include diesel. We provide support for indigenous communities that are on diesel in the north. Many communities have not transitioned to renewables. I think we need to have a serious discussion across the board, and we do everything in a transparent way.

We have an opportunity to move to a cleaner future, and we're going to continue to look at all the opportunities to do that and to make the investments. We understand that the environment and the economy go together, and Canada has a huge opportunity to showcase to the world our innovation and our clean solutions. I see those solutions across the board from Enwave in downtown Toronto, which is actually taking water from the deep dark part of the Great Lakes, from Lake Ontario, where it's extremely cold, to cool our buildings in downtown Toronto, saving 80% of the GHG, which is much more energy efficient.

I have seen CarbonCure in Mr. Fisher's riding. This is an amazing company that takes emissions from industry and injects them into cement to make cheaper, stronger cement. We need to create the incentives.

One of the greatest incentives we can provide to foster clean solutions is to put a price on pollution, because guess what? That makes it more efficient for people to choose clean solutions. If you believe that we need to grow the economy, that we need to transition to a cleaner future, that we want to have the technology and the solutions right here in Canada from our inventors and our entrepreneurs, then everyone here should support putting a price on pollution, because that's exactly what it does.

We are doing it in an affordable way. We are giving the money back to families so that life is affordable, and we are creating the incentive for them to save even more money using LED light bulbs, using smart thermostats in their homes. There are many opportunities for folks to save money, for us to innovate and to create the solutions the world desperately needs.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you, Minister.

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Next week I'm in the G7 in France, and I'm going to be promoting Canadian solutions and jobs.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

I do have another question.

You mentioned phasing out coal. Does Canada still sell coal internationally?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I think it's really important that we phase out coal and also ensure a just transition for workers. We need to be making sure that as we move to a cleaner future—it's much healthier to get out of coal for folks and communities—that everyone is part of the solution.

I'm very proud that we are working with labour, and that labour has gone to communities that will be impacted to look at the opportunities for those communities, the way we support workers, and the way we ensure that they are part of the transition to a cleaner future, and we're going to continue to do that.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

I'll give you a last quick question.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you.

You talked about the stewardship of plastic and the fact that we're drowning in plastic. Are you looking at stewardship in terms of packaging and the excessive packaging we see in virtually every part of this country?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I think that is a huge opportunity for us. We can do a lot better. We shouldn't be wrapping utensils in plastic and putting them in plastic bags. We're working with industry. I've had good conversations with industry across the board who understand that they have a responsibility to do better. We are going to push them. Extended producer responsibility is really important. It's really great, because you're seeing new opportunities for businesses. Many of you live in Ottawa Centre, I believe, where you can go to Nu Grocery. They have no plastic in the shop. Nothing is wrapped. You can bring your own containers or they will provide paper bags.

We have an opportunity to do a lot better while creating good jobs, while growing our economy and while not throwing out value. With plastics right now, we are throwing out value. That makes no sense. We can do a lot better and we need to do a lot better.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

That takes us slightly over your time, Ms. Mathyssen, but since all of the other parties also went slightly over on their round or two of questioning, I think that levels it out for everybody.

That takes us to the end of our rounds of questioning. To the minister and officials, thank you so much for being here.

To tidy up this part of the meeting, we still need to go through 12 votes as committee members. We don't need our witnesses here for that, so at this point, as we move into the votes part of this process, anybody at the table who wants to pack up can do so.

That doesn't include the members of the committee. I expect that the 12 votes will take us to five o'clock, at which time we are scheduled to go in camera for some committee business.

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

It's always a pleasure.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Thank you.

Members, I was going to move right into the votes.

Mr. Bossio, we....

Who else did I lose?

We'll now turn to the votes.

CANADIAN ENVIRONMENTAL ASSESSMENT AGENCY

Vote 1—Operating expenditures..........$53,511,120

Vote 5—Grants and Contributions..........$14,525,184

(Votes 1 and 5 agreed to on division)

DEPARTMENT OF THE ENVIRONMENT

Vote 1—Operating expenditures..........$837,298,834

Vote 5—Capital expenditures..........$82,322,680

Vote 10—Grants and contributions..........$787,558,681

Vote 15—Canada's Marine Safety Response..........$2,535,478

Vote 20—Ensuring Better Disaster Management Preparation and Response..........$790,033

Vote 25—Implementing a Federal Carbon Offset System..........$4,739,890

Vote 30—Strong Arctic and Northern Communities..........$18,280,000

(Votes 1, 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 and 30 agreed to on division)

PARKS CANADA AGENCY

Vote 1—Program expenditures..........$1,433,900,120

Vote 5—Payment to the New Parks and Historic Sites Account..........$13,423,000

(Votes 1 and 5 agreed to on division)

Shall I report the votes on the main estimates to the House?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

On division.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

All right. That took slightly less time than I had expected.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Call back the witnesses.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

We'll now suspend the meeting, clear the room and go into the in camera business we have scheduled.

[Proceedings continue in camera]