Evidence of meeting #22 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cepa.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
11:45 a.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
You bet. I'll keep them moving.
I share Mr. Amos's challenge. There's lots to go on and not enough time.
Ms. Morin, I want to start with you. First of all. It's nice to see you, and thank you for all your leadership on behalf of the Tahltan Nation.
From your perspective, what credibility does the environmental review process hold within the first nations communities you work with and advise, and not just within the Tahltan community but also within other nations you work with. How important is that credibility in the process and the acceptance of any industrial project like mining that takes place on territory?
11:45 a.m.
Liberal
William Amos Liberal Pontiac, QC
Sorry to interrupt you, Ms. Morin, but on a point of order I'm wondering if this is relevant to CEPA? You're talking about environmental reviews. What aspect of CEPA are we dealing with here?
11:45 a.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
With the way toxins are managed when dealing...as Ms. Morin is sitting on the....
I assume this is out of our time right now, Madam Chair—
11:45 a.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
One of the things Ms. Morin is involved in is sitting on the board of the Mount Polley tailings disaster and the toxins located there, and how we managed those toxins and effluents.
If the management and review of those toxins hasn't been talked about, how much confidence is there within the first nations communities that the review of the toxins now present in their rivers and environment, either through a disaster or the normal activity of, say, a mining project...? How important is it to connect back to the communities that are facing that risk?
I wasn't as explicit in my question as I could have been, as Mr. Amos has helpfully pointed out.
11:45 a.m.
Liberal
11:45 a.m.
Principal, ArrowBlade Consulting Services
The reason there is limited credibility is that the information being presented by the first nations gets limited consideration. When thinking about doing an effects assessment, the understanding of what the potential effects will be for first nations' values can only be determined by the first nations. We're finding, through a number of these reviews, that people don't understand when a first nation says they cannot fish there anymore and the implications of that.
11:45 a.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Thank you very much for that.
Ms. Duncan, what's the current state, from your perspective, of the quality of data available to the public and to the communities being impacted by or exposed to any of these toxins? We've talked a bit about BPA and some of the others, about that education versus whose responsibility.... Is the data for interested groups of a sufficient quality right now such that people can actually make an assessment as to what their exposure is?
11:50 a.m.
NDP
11:50 a.m.
NDP
Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
I could go back to a specific example. I was involved with a local community group dealing with the emissions from coal-fired power plants.
11:50 a.m.
NDP
Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
I decided that I would focus on mercury, because that's a neurotoxin. It's the most serious chemical out there, which the federal government has failed to regulate.
It's very difficult unless you give up your career and paid work and take the time to inform yourself. The only way to.... Frankly, as the lawyer from Tahltan has said, these issues come up when a disaster occurs in your community, or when a project is proposed near your community or on a river or lake you care about. Then you get engaged. Then you start hearing about what the potential chemicals are that might impact you.
Just generally, in the federal government's regulating of chemicals under CEPA, it's very hard to garner people's interest. That's why I'm saying there needs to be a specific advisory body of NGOs that are willing to give their time to this on behalf of their communities across the country.
11:50 a.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
It's almost like translation or interpretation of sometimes very thick data.
11:50 a.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Dr. Scott, I'll go over to you. In my second year here, I moved a bill through Parliament to ban a certain endocrine disrupter called “phthalates”.
I can remember sitting at this environment committee and having industry at the table saying that if we banned these things in soothers and baby bottles that were also in plastic tubing for surgery, Canadians would in fact die on the operating table, because there were no substitutes, and it was irresponsible for us to do this. I looked up what endocrine disruptors do while we were talking. These are hormone disruptors linked to cancer and linked to disabilities and all sorts of brain activity.
My question is this. In your research, you've pointed out that Canada has the lowest standards regarding bioaccumulation, the ability of these chemicals to concentrate in mammals and humans, in the industrialized world. You've also mentioned that the EU has a “no data, no market” policy. Can you explain what that means?
11:50 a.m.
Associate Professor, Osgoode Hall Law School and the Faculty of Environmental Studies, York University, As an Individual
On the first point about the phthalates, I think there is quite a bit of research now into alternatives, into “green” plasticizers, as they call them, and those are the kinds of things that would come out if we had a safe substitution principle in place, right? You would do the risk assessment on the phthalates, and when you moved into the risk management phase you would have this safe substitution principle in place, and the industry would really have to show that there was no other green plasticizer that could do the same job without creating these devastating risks that you talk about.
On the last—
11:50 a.m.
Associate Professor, Osgoode Hall Law School and the Faculty of Environmental Studies, York University, As an Individual
Again, the REACH regulation says “no data, no market”. As I say in my brief, our approach really is “no data, no problem”. I think that's wrong. People have talked about the integration of these markets for these products. They're worldwide. If the producers of the products are producing that data for the REACH regulators, I don't see why Canadian regulators shouldn't also have access to it.
