Evidence of meeting #70 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was municipalities.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Eric Gagné  Director General, Science and Technology Branch, Department of the Environment
Robert Judge  Director, Sectoral Policy, Office of Infrastructure of Canada
James Van Loon  Director General, Consumer Product Safety Directorate, Healthy Environments and Consumer Safety Branch, Department of Health
Lori MacDonald  Assistant Deputy Minister, Emergency Management and Programs Branch, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
Laura Di Paolo  Director General, Program Integration, Office of Infrastructure of Canada
Bogdan Makuc  Director, Program Integration, Office of Infrastructure of Canada
Philip Rizcallah  Director, Building Regulations, National Research Council of Canada
Tim Williams  Committee Researcher

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte

A quick answer.

4:10 p.m.

Director, Program Integration, Office of Infrastructure of Canada

Bogdan Makuc

I'm not quite clear what—

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB

Well, it's from the government, and it says what infrastructure is for: it's for revitalized local public infrastructure.

4:10 p.m.

Director, Program Integration, Office of Infrastructure of Canada

Bogdan Makuc

Yes, and municipalities invest in infrastructure projects across the country, and we do get information on those each year.

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB

But it didn't say what you just said it didn't have....

4:10 p.m.

Director, Program Integration, Office of Infrastructure of Canada

Bogdan Makuc

I was talking about what the report was critical of us about.

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB

Oh, but it says greenhouse gases and the rest of it, and that's not what it says here. It doesn't say that in here. It says what the fund is for.

4:10 p.m.

Director, Program Integration, Office of Infrastructure of Canada

Bogdan Makuc

“In here” being...?

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB

It's from Infrastructure Canada, the Government of Canada, and it says what the federal gas tax fund is.

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte

Martin, I'm going to have to cut you off.

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB

Yes, I know.

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte

You might want to pick that up on the next round.

The next one up is Ms. Duncan.

4:10 p.m.

NDP

Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

Thanks.

To begin, I'll just comment. I wasn't on the committee at the time when they all testified before us. I was speed-reading through the proceedings and noted that the commissioner previously recommended that the committee have a meeting for each chapter, but here we are again with all three or four chapters. I would suggest that by the end of the meeting—or after—we should confer and think about whether there is something we really want to follow up with, say, in 2018. That would be my first question.

Is it Natural Resources on the building code...?

4:10 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Emergency Management and Programs Branch, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness

Lori MacDonald

It's the National Research Council.

4:10 p.m.

NDP

Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

Okay.

I'm a little bit concerned with the deadline you've said, which is by 2020. In the meantime, we have a lot of housing and other buildings being built, and it's far more expensive to retrofit. It's been known for quite some time that we need an updated building code. I'm wondering why this keeps dragging out.

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte

Philip, go ahead.

4:15 p.m.

Philip Rizcallah Director, Building Regulations, National Research Council of Canada

Would you like me to respond to that?

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte

Yes, please.

4:15 p.m.

Director, Building Regulations, National Research Council of Canada

Philip Rizcallah

The building codes are on a five-year cycle. The next cycle for the building code is 2020. Generally, it takes about a year and a half to two years of technical work, plus some consultation and stakeholder engagement. Then the material is published in 2020. The usual code cycle is 2020. Some of the material may be ready by 2018, and at that time the provinces and territories can have access to the material and adopt it, but the adoption period is every five years.

4:15 p.m.

NDP

Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

That's not very encouraging.

I remain very confused by all the funds for green infrastructure.

We have the gas tax, and the commissioner asked questions about the environmental side of the gas tax.

Then we have the fund directly through the FCM, where they allocate it.

Is that different from the $20 billion over 10 years—in other words, $2 billion a year for green infrastructure—or is it the same?

4:15 p.m.

Director General, Program Integration, Office of Infrastructure of Canada

Laura Di Paolo

They are different, and also, they were announced at different times. The funds that will be delivered through the FCM are two capacity-building programs. Also, we will fund some small pilot and development projects under the municipal climate innovation fund. For the most part, those programs are very much capacity-building and trying to get municipalities and communities on board with us at management planning and working more towards the life-cycle management of their assets.

The green funding that we have in the 2017 budget speaks more specifically to what we'll be launching in the very near term through the integrated bilateral agreements with provinces and territories for climate change mitigation projects—

4:15 p.m.

NDP

Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

That's the planning that is delayed again for two more years. It was announced last year, at $1.5 billion, and then it was held back this year, with $750 million less this year. I'm looking at the 2017-18 budget and the “low carbon economy fund” under the pan-Canadian plan. There is adaptation and climate resilience, which is another one, where there is $33 million, but other than that there doesn't seem to be much money released on that for a while.

4:15 p.m.

Director General, Program Integration, Office of Infrastructure of Canada

Laura Di Paolo

I can't speak to the other two programs. They're funded through different departments.

4:15 p.m.

NDP

Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

This is what I'm trying to get a handle on. Who is going to have control over the low carbon economy fund under the pan-Canadian...?

4:15 p.m.

Director General, Science and Technology Branch, Department of the Environment

Eric Gagné

I'm at Environment and Climate Change Canada. I'm not in a position to answer that. I'm here as a witness for the green municipal fund and the IDF curves. We'd have to get back to you on that.