Evidence of meeting #88 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was departments.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:45 a.m.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
Go ahead.
9:45 a.m.
Principal, Office of the Auditor General
Thank you.
I think, to answer your question, there are opportunities with proposed section 10.1 of the act, which is the directive power that is being given to the Treasury Board.
In terms of one of the comments the commissioner made in her opening statement, there might be some value in looking at expanding it to allow the Minister of the Environment and Climate Change to also issue directives to achieve exactly the sorts of things you're talking about.
9:45 a.m.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
Can I also add that when we're doing a preparedness audit right now, we ask whether the Government of Canada is prepared to implement the sustainable development goals. We're doing this according to methodology that's being used by auditors general from around the world. One of the questions is regarding what the public engagement has been on the sustainable development goals. We'll be looking at that. We're reporting it in March.
9:45 a.m.
NDP
Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
Okay, here is a final question.
You have raised concerns that some of the principles are particularly vague. Could you speak to principle (h), collaboration, and principle (i), a results and delivery approach? I've never heard of those principles, and I'm wondering whether you think there might be a challenge in applying those when you're reviewing the strategy.
9:45 a.m.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
I would argue that it's going to be difficult to apply many of the principles. As I already indicated in the case of the polluter pay principle, which is a principle that those who degrade the environment should pay for it, am I really going to look for departments to...? Are they really going to pay? Yes or no? Do we have fines? It's that kind of thing.
We encourage you or the government to try to be as precise as possible, so that when we are auditing against the principles, we have more definition.
9:45 a.m.
NDP
Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
Perhaps when they do the strategies, they should say how they have applied those principles.
9:45 a.m.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
Exactly.
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte
I never ask a question, but I really would like to ask a question. I've been listening—
9:45 a.m.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
I'll take your question.
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte
Thank you, with the support of the committee.
We did the study and we made recommendations as a committee to take it up a level and have it go to a higher, over-arching department or government operation that would oversee this. The government has said no, that it would like to have it in the department of the environment.
I'm listening to you say that looking at the socio-economic impact has been standard, that we got that right, but we really haven't been looking at environment. I'm seeing the benefit of having an environment minister making sure that this other piece gets in there, so I'm seeing why the government may be doing what they're doing. I also understand how we made recommendations to take it to another level.
Can you just comment on this? I'm trying to rationalize it in my mind. It's very important to me and to the committee, because we made that recommendation, but I also understand in what way there may be value in the way the government is doing this. I want to get your opinion on the matter.
9:45 a.m.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
I think that when sustainable development is put into the environment department, it's ghettoized, and it becomes an environmental strategy and not a true sustainable development strategy. While I too recognize that the environment department will continue to push for looking at it from an environmental perspective, I think that if the Department of Finance, Treasury Board and/or PCO required an environmental assessment of decisions to add to the socio-economic assessment of decisions, it would be followed. I think they have more of a stick, and I think the Minister of Environment and Climate Change Canada just doesn't have that same kind of leverage that the central agencies have.
I know you recommended that as a committee, and that is why we personally would support that. We've seen it in other countries where that occurs, and then it becomes just part of everyday life. Ultimately, you would hope that we don't need a department of environment because all of us are thinking about these decisions from the social, economic, and environmental perspective all the time, and then it's sort of redundant because we're all thinking that way. But we're not quite there yet, so we do need an advocate for that. But to really make it mainstream, you would put it in a central agency.
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
December 5th, 2017 / 9:50 a.m.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
And that would be okay. If we were making decisions that included the environment as well as the socio-economic aspect, I would bow down.
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte
Excellent.
This has been a good discussion. Thank you very much again for taking the time to come and share your wisdom with us.
9:50 a.m.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
Thank you.
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte
We are going to resume.
I'm going to welcome Nick Xenos to the table. Nick is the executive director of the centre for greening government within the Treasury Board Secretariat.
Welcome, Nick. You have 10 minutes.
9:50 a.m.
Nick Xenos Executive Director, Centre for Greening Government, Treasury Board Secretariat
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I'm pleased to have this opportunity to talk about the work that the Treasury Board Secretariat centre for greening government is undertaking to meet the commitment under the federal sustainable development strategy to realize a low-carbon government.
As you know, Bill C-57 would formally recognize the leadership role of the Treasury Board Secretariat in greening government operations.
It is important to note that the centre for greening government will complement the leadership role that Environment and Climate Change Canada plays on sustainable development writ large for the Government of Canada.
Specifically, the centre will provide guidance and coordination to departments on the low-carbon government commitment under the FSDS.
The proposed amendments to the Federal Sustainable Development Act would increase the number of organizations that report on the strategy and, therefore, on the low-carbon government commitment of the FSDS. This is consistent with the Centre for Greening Government expanding the inventory it maintains of federal greenhouse gas emissions to cover more departments and organizations.
Reducing the country's greenhouse gas emissions has been a priority for the Government of Canada. Canada committed to reducing its national emissions by 30% from 2005 levels by the year 2030.
In the 2016-19 FSDS, the Government of Canada committed to leading by example by making its own operations low carbon. The federal government set a target to reduce emissions by 40% by 2030.
Under the pan-Canadian framework on clean growth and climate change, the government also committed to using 100% clean electricity by 2025.
The Centre for Greening Government was established within the Treasury Board Secretariat in the fall of 2016 to meet these low-carbon government commitments.
The centre has a mandate to track and report on federal emissions, to coordinate the government's overall efforts to green its operations, and to drive results to meet the government's greening objectives.
Earlier this year, we organized two round tables to explore two important topics. The first one was with federal employees on greening government operations to help mobilize employees. The second brought together our partners in business and academia to learn from their experiences in greening procurement and adopting clean technologies.
In July, the centre posted a dataset on the greening government section of Canada.ca showing that the government's GHG emissions were reduced by 19% in 2014-15 from 2005-06 levels. The inventory is made public through the government's open data portal, giving Canadians single-window access to tracking information on the government's emissions.
We are working to further expand this inventory to achieve a more complete picture of federal greenhouse gas emissions and energy use, to gain a better understanding of resources of emissions and identify areas of opportunity to take action. The centre is tabulating emissions reductions from the last two years and will report them as soon as they are available.
Going forward, we will update the emissions annually, and the data will include more departments and agencies, as well as an expanded scope of activities.
Drawing on the expertise of expert departments such as the National Research Council, Public Services and Procurement Canada, and Natural Resources Canada, the centre is providing guidance to departments on greening real property, fleet, and procurement. Departments are making progress in advancing energy efficiency and low-carbon projects. The largest federal emitter, for example, the Department of National Defence, published its energy and environment strategy and is purchasing renewable energy in Alberta. It's hiring energy managers for its major bases, purchasing energy performance contracts, and greening its administrative fleet.
The second-largest emitter, Public Services and Procurement Canada, is updating the heating and cooling plants that serve the Parliamentary Precinct and other federal buildings, working to make its office space and leases low-carbon and piloting a zero-carbon retrofit in one building.
By collaborating with the private sector and other stakeholders, the government will implement programs aimed at greening its operations and adopting green technologies, and it will mobilize federal employees to find new ways to reduce our environmental footprint.
Looking ahead, we'll continue reviewing the government's policies to strengthen greening and achieve its low-carbon goals.
The centre looks forward to continuing to work with government departments and agencies to do this.
Thank you for the opportunity to describe the work of the centre for greening government at the Treasury Board Secretariat and how that contributes to the government's efforts to achieve sustainable development.
I welcome your views, comments and questions.
9:55 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte
Thank you very much. That was very quick and it leaves more time for questions.
We'll start with Mr. Bossio.
9:55 a.m.
Liberal
Mike Bossio Liberal Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON
Mr. Xenos, thank you so much for being here this morning. We appreciate it.
With proposed section 10.1, Treasury Board is added to the act. With Treasury Board being added to the act in this fashion, what advantage do you see as far as your being better able to enforce the criteria within the act is concerned?
9:55 a.m.
Executive Director, Centre for Greening Government, Treasury Board Secretariat
On greening government, the act lays out a good framework and a good strategy forward. It's very clear on how we can work with departments and enforce that low-carbon government act. We've done many things.
First, we've tracked and reported emissions and made that public. The first thing is really important and the act has allowed us to do that.
Second, we're working with departments in a focused way on low-carbon government. The commitments and the strategy have been really clear and we're able to focus on and work with departments to accomplish those goals. We're able to look at the different administrative policies and instruments at Treasury Board to help on low-carbon government.
The proposed amendments also expand the number of departments. That's really helpful as well in terms of expanding the departments that will be reporting on low-carbon government.
10 a.m.
Liberal
Mike Bossio Liberal Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON
Based on best practices from the previous level, what impact do you think you'll be able to have on these other departments that haven't fallen under this jurisdiction?
10 a.m.
Executive Director, Centre for Greening Government, Treasury Board Secretariat
It will formalize their reporting and their actions and also open up the channels of communication on the guidance that we're going to provide. We connect them now with the expert departments, such as Natural Resources Canada, Environment Canada, the National Research Council, and so on, so they're now involved. They've been doing various things to green their operations, but now it's going to be more formal. They'll need to report on it. They'll need to reach the targets, and so on.
