Environment Committee on Dec. 5th, 2017

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

This will be a first. I agree with the concerns Mr. Sopuck has raised.

I must say that I'm a little stunned to discover the narrowness with which Treasury Board is considering their job. Was it Treasury Board who drafted proposed section 10.1, saying that you do guidelines and environmental impact of operations, or was it Environment who drafted that?

[Nick Xenos]

In this legislation we worked with Environment Canada on that language.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Are you aware of the concerns raised by the commissioner of the environment and sustainable development, that the UN sustainable development goals that Canada signed on to go far beyond environmental impacts and that all entities, including senior ones—the Treasury Board and the PCO—should be evaluating against environmental, economic, and socio-economic impacts?

[Nick Xenos]

Of course I'm aware of the commissioner's report.

Just to be clear, the centre for greening government is one part of the Treasury Board. Obviously, across Treasury Board, submissions are looked at in all aspects, whether economic, social, environment, or others, but our centre is really focused on greening government operations. There are many parts to Treasury Board Secretariat as well.

Concerning the commissioner's report on strategic environmental assessment, the commissioner recognized that TBS has in place guidance and tools on the SEA. But of course, more is needed; that was clear. Treasury Board thus committed to developing additional guidance for departments to confirm and give clear demonstration that the cabinet directive was considered. We agreed with the commissioner's recommendations.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

I remain concerned that you are only being mandated to consider environmental impacts, which of course I guess would explain why only your office of greening government is sitting here. Are there other people in Treasury Board who are looking at the social and economic impacts of the sustainable development strategies?

[Nick Xenos]

Do you mean in the federal sustainable development strategy, or are you talking about the strategic environmental—?

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

—and departmental strategies.

[Nick Xenos]

The departmental strategies.

Of course, when the departmental strategies come forward, ministers come forward with their departmental strategy and report to Parliament on it. We, the centre for greening government, will look at the environmental aspects. We lead on this low-carbon government commitment, one of the—

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

What you're telling me, then, is that you are the point of contact when Treasury Board scrutinizes the federal strategy and the departmental strategies—you, the greening of government office?

[Nick Xenos]

I'm the point of contact for the low-carbon government goal.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

When you scrutinize, are you only looking at reduction of carbon or are you looking at other factors?

[Nick Xenos]

My mandate is to look at the—

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Do you mean Treasury Board?

[Nick Xenos]

Well, as the Treasury Board Secretariat, there's annual reporting that departments do, whether through the FSDS, whether through the departmental results plan, whether through the departmental plan. Obviously there's a much larger reporting function within Treasury Board that looks at annual reporting to Parliament by departments on their mandate across all these issues and areas. Whether Fisheries and Oceans is reporting on their mandate and what they do on oceans, etc., this is also involved in the broader reporting to Parliament process. So, again—

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Okay. I'm not talking about reporting to Parliament.

[Nick Xenos]

Yes.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

You have reported here that you are with the centre for greening government in Treasury Board, and your sole mandate is to work towards reducing carbon; it is not beyond that. You don't look to impacts upon vulnerable persons, implications of toxins, biodiversity, equity. You only look at reducing carbon—

[Nick Xenos]

The mandate of—

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

—on the federal sustainable development strategy and the department sustainable development strategies.

[Nick Xenos]

I think as departments go forward with their strategies, there are lots of parts of Treasury Board that are involved in the different areas.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

No, no, no, but that's—

[Nick Xenos]

Okay. I'm not sure I'm understanding the question.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

You're going to issue guidelines. You are empowered...if this bill passes, Treasury Board will be empowered to issue the narrow guidelines on environmental impact. What I'm asking you is, is it your understanding that Treasury Board is going to only issues guidelines on your mandate, which is reducing carbon, or is it their intent to issue guidelines on all of the sustainable development goals?

[Nick Xenos]

I just want to clarify the difference. If you're talking about the cabinet directive on strategic environmental assessment, then—

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

No, I'm talking about your being given a new power under this bill to issue policies and directives related to—