Evidence of meeting #94 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was energy.
A recording is available from Parliament.
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President and Chief Executive Officer, Building Owners and Managers Association of Canada
That's 100% the case.
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NDP
Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
I wonder if you could speak to whether or not energy efficiency is starting to be a major factor in leaseholds and also to what is happening at the federal level since our last review.
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President and Chief Executive Officer, Building Owners and Managers Association of Canada
Yes.
Randal, do you want to talk about the private side? I'll talk about the feds.
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President and General Manager, Equity ICI Real Estate Services Inc., Building Owners and Managers Association International
Sure. Start with the feds first or we'll run out of time, unfortunately.
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President and Chief Executive Officer, Building Owners and Managers Association of Canada
To steal two seconds from Randal—
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President and General Manager, Equity ICI Real Estate Services Inc., Building Owners and Managers Association International
You're out of time.
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Voices
Oh, oh!
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President and Chief Executive Officer, Building Owners and Managers Association of Canada
—the private sector is way ahead of government. There are governments at the sub-federal level that are leaders—some provinces and municipalities—and also some university campuses. The University of Alberta is certifying its entire massive campus with our program, which is fantastic.
In general, I think, the federal government is spotty, and it's the biggest player on the block. I believe DND is the single largest real property owner in the country, which no one really knows about.
I think it's an opportunity for leadership in a few different ways. I think the politics are great, irrespective of party. I think they're great because sustainability is not going anywhere, and I think different parties are grappling with it in different ways.
11:55 a.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Building Owners and Managers Association of Canada
The issue is there, but I also think there's been a shift, to use the metaphor of 24 Sussex Drive that I wrote about in the Globe this week. I think the public has shifted away as well. I look at the beautiful job done here on this building. I used to work at PCO down the street, and I'd walk past all the cladding. The public actually wants value for money now. Gone are the days where people wonder why you spent an extra 10¢ a square foot.
I'll quickly wrap up by saying that I think you can use not just your policy leadership but your market leadership to certify your buildings. You guys lease millions of square feet. Demand in your leases that the buildings be energy-efficient according to the BOMA standards. That will transform the marketplace, and that will save oodles of taxpayer dollars.
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President and General Manager, Equity ICI Real Estate Services Inc., Building Owners and Managers Association International
I think it's important to note that the reason commercial real estate is a little different is that in Canada a lot of it is driven by pension fund ownership at this point. Many of the investment firms demand sustainability. Their investors want and demand it. They actually compete among each other with ratings, so a lot of your investment return is based on whether your building is sustainable. The stakeholders in those investments and pension funds are demanding it from their ownership and their managers. That drives it a lot.
At the mid-market and lower end of the scale, there's a lot of low-hanging fruit there for smaller owners. There's a big possibility for that.
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Liberal
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Liberal
Darren Fisher Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thanks, folks, for being here. It's a very exciting topic. BOMA, I've never heard of you guys, and some of your testimony was really good.
I'm going to try to bring some of my scribbles together here. My first question would be for CMHC.
Noon
President and Chief Executive Officer, Building Owners and Managers Association of Canada
Time.
Noon
Some hon. members
Oh, oh!
Noon
Liberal
Darren Fisher Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS
Are you able to adapt? We heard the comment from Benjamin that the private sector is way ahead of government. Is CMHC able to adapt to the industries and the innovation that's going on in retrofitting and energy efficiency projects for homes, commercial buildings, and multi-units? Do you feel that in your application process you're able to react as quickly as the industry and the innovation that's out there?
When people apply to you and they come forward with something that is so up here, are your application forms down there—i.e., you maybe don't give credit to someone who comes forward with something that's much more energy-efficient?
Noon
Manager, Housing Needs Research, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation
We have moved on raising our energy efficiency standards, largely because the code is moving, as I think this committee is aware, in terms of energy efficiency. We float above it, and—
Noon
Liberal
Darren Fisher Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS
But industry is moving faster than the code as well, correct?
Noon
Manager, Housing Needs Research, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation
Yes, but we find that our float point is appropriate for trying to attract people into the market as willing participants without scaring them away.
Now, it's interesting that you raise this issue of performance. Under the national housing strategy, and particularly through the programs that CMHC will be launching whereby we'll be directly funding affordable housing projects, both renewal and new construction, there is a minimum standard they will all have to meet that is 25% above the model national energy code for buildings. That's already above the building code, in many locations.
Our baseline is quite high, but buildings that go beyond that will score additional points in the system, and that prioritizes them. In this way, we'll get leaders floating to the top in our selection process for funding for this program, which will offer both better-than-competitive interest rates to incent the construction along and forgivable loans for higher levels of performance.
Therefore, through the national housing strategy over the next 10 years, yes, you'll see CMHC and the projects we're involved in leading, particularly through the national housing co-investment fund.
Noon
Liberal
Darren Fisher Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS
Wow. That's good news.
On the 25% refund through NRCan, is that regionally applied, or are there times when it's based on applications and it might get eaten up by the big centres? Does it make it to some of the smaller areas in the territories? Do you guys save a little bit of money for all the areas of that, or is it based on application?
Noon
Manager, Housing Needs Research, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation
I can't speak to the prioritization for the mortgage loan insurance refund project, but certainly for the funding that's coming forward on the national housing strategy, we're going to make an effort to make sure we get regional impacts so that we don't lose the small providers. There will be a giant sucking sound, there's no doubt about it, from the GTA and Vancouver.
