Evidence of meeting #97 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was board.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Norman Shields  Manager, Heritage Designations, Parks Canada Agency
Karen L. Pearce  Legal Counsel, Parks Canada Agency
Rachel Grasham  Director Policy, Legislative and Cabinet Affairs, Parks Canada Agency
Alan Kerr  Vice-President, Corporate Services and Chief Financial Officer, Canadian Environmental Assessment Agency
Sylvain Michaud  Chief Financial Officer, Parks Canada Agency
Douglas McConnachie  Director General and Deputy Chief Financial Officer, Financial Management Directorate, Department of the Environment
Sue Milburn-Hopwood  Assistant Deputy Minister, Canadian Wildlife Service, Department of the Environment
Matt Jones  Assistant Deputy Minister, Pan-Canadian Framework Implementation Office , Department of the Environment
John Moffet  Acting Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Environmental Protection Branch, Department of the Environment
Rob Prosper  Vice-President, Protected Areas Establishment and Conservation, Parks Canada Agency

11:45 a.m.

Conservative

Robert Sopuck Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB

I disagree very strongly with your view that there can't be enough over representation of any group. What would happen in terms of the decisions and recommendations, that for me, there would certainly be bias in a certain direction.

For example in my own constituency, the Ukrainian community has a history that's both epic and tragic at the same time. There is a serious under representation in my view, of Ukrainian culture, in terms of representation.

This business of picking representative boards and arbitrarily deciding what's over or under represented...and again I'm not being pejorative, this is a very difficult thing to do, it's not easy. What you're embarking on is not easy.

I think as this bill moves forward and representatives are chosen, all biases need to be left at the door. We want historic and commemorative sites that truly represent Canada in all its aspects.

How will you deal with this?

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

John Aldag Liberal Cloverdale—Langley City, BC

That's where the selection process is really critical, in making sure that as you say, people are able to represent the area of expertise that they bring, yet be objective.

We've had 150 years of exclusion of that indigenous voice from commemorations in Canada, so this is a recognition of that absence and the special relationship we have with indigenous peoples. I think with the additions of these voices, we are able to still represent and commemorate a whole range of Canadian stories, not just aboriginal ones.

11:45 a.m.

Conservative

Robert Sopuck Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB

Do you see—

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte

Joël had his finger up, then we'll go back to you. But it's up to you guys.

11:45 a.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

Go ahead.

11:45 a.m.

Conservative

Robert Sopuck Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB

I didn't see it. That's fine.

Do you see a role for “qualified amateur historians”? That's the only word I can think of. There may be a better one.

In communities right across Canada, as you well know, there are people who have taken a deep and abiding interest in the histories of their regions. They may not have the “academic” qualifications, but their deep local knowledge is something the country should tap into.

Do you see people like that being part of this board?

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

John Aldag Liberal Cloverdale—Langley City, BC

I think that goes beyond what I can speak to in this capacity. There is a selection process, and I would say it would have to remain with the board, and ultimately the minister, to deem who is qualified for these appointments.

11:45 a.m.

Conservative

Robert Sopuck Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB

I was just asking for your opinion. It seems to me that qualified local historians with a deep knowledge of a certain area should be considered.

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

John Aldag Liberal Cloverdale—Langley City, BC

I think expertise comes in a wide range of forms.

11:45 a.m.

Conservative

Robert Sopuck Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB

Thanks, I appreciate that.

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte

Okay.

Mr. Godin.

11:45 a.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

Madam Chair, I would like to pick up on the topic my colleague Mr. Sopuck raised.

Mr. Aldag, you said you have established selection criteria. So far, so good. As far as increasing indigenous representation goes, we have the same objective. That said, when a bill is drafted, the necessary mechanisms must be included to eliminate as many grey areas as possible.

In reading this, I am not convinced that the level of representation will be controlled. It is all relative. What does having more or less representation mean? I think better guidelines are needed.

I would like to hear your thoughts on that.

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

John Aldag Liberal Cloverdale—Langley City, BC

I actually don't know if I can go any further than what I've said. I think I've tried to respond as best I can. This is the wording that I was able to come up with, with the input of our legal experts, on how to get to the best points in implementing recommendation 79.1, so I've had to rely on the guidance of our legal counsel on how to word that, and this is what I am able to put forward.

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte

I just want to give an opportunity. We do have experts at the table.

Is there anything they'd like to share with us on this discussion point?

11:45 a.m.

Manager, Heritage Designations, Parks Canada Agency

Norman Shields

I suppose all I would add is that in the selection process, the way the Historic Sites and Monuments Board of Canada members are appointed is currently, as John has mentioned, there are the three federal-level members, and then there are the provincial and territorial. With this bill, if it is enacted, there would be indigenous representation.

All of those would then go through the government's open and transparent and merit-based Governor in Council appointments process. There are notices of opportunities that outline the type of criteria that people are expected to meet to be able to serve on the board, and all residents of Canada are eligible to apply for those positions.

11:50 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte

Okay, thank you.

Peter Kent.

11:50 a.m.

Conservative

Peter Kent Conservative Thornhill, ON

Thank you, Chair.

This is a question arising from John's opening remarks, as the sponsor of the bill, regarding the Stanley Park plaque sitting today in a shed because of challenges by first nations' communities. I know there have been any number of these situations over the years with other communities—the Ukrainian community with regard to the heritage plaque in Banff—and others.

I'm just wondering, Mr. Shields, how many historic site plaques are under challenge at the moment, or have yet to be placed on the sites for which they were designed.

11:50 a.m.

Manager, Heritage Designations, Parks Canada Agency

Norman Shields

I'd be speculating on the answer to that question. The government has been implementing a plaque of celebration strategy and we've unveiled a number of plaques over the past number of years and we're continuing to work on that this year and next year.

11:50 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte

Peter, can you get at the point because we're trying to get [Inaudible]?

11:50 a.m.

Conservative

Peter Kent Conservative Thornhill, ON

Just to the point, are there other first nations' challenges for historic sites? This springs from John's challenge for the Stanley Park.

11:50 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte

Yes, it's justification for why we're trying to—

11:50 a.m.

Conservative

Peter Kent Conservative Thornhill, ON

Yes, exactly.

11:50 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte

Okay, fair enough. And the answer is—

11:50 a.m.

Conservative

Peter Kent Conservative Thornhill, ON

In other words, are there other plaques where the wording has yet to be resolved, where the benefit of having three additional members of the board might speed that course?

11:50 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte

That would be helpful.