Environment Committee on March 22nd, 2018

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

Thank you.

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

My deputy wanted to add I think a very useful point.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

Okay. Real quick.

[Stephen Lucas, Deputy Minister, Department of the Environment]

As the minister indicated, there's a critical role in collaborating with provinces and territories on identifying key ecosystems and their value, and in working collaboratively on regional and strategic assessments, but the act also provides a means for people to request consideration of a strategic assessment and for the minister to respond publicly with the reasons for the decision.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

Thank you very much.

Next up is Mr. Godin.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Can you let me know when I have one minute left in my time? I am going to share the time with Mrs. Stubbs.

Madam Minister, Mr. Minister, and the senior officials, my thanks for being part of this morning's exercise.

I was pleased to hear the Minister of Natural Resources say that he was happy to sit down with the Minister of Environment and Climate Change. I completely agree with that approach. Now, beyond the approach and the image, we must work together to attain concrete results.

Madam Minister, in your presentation, you said that Bill C-69 is intended to ensure that scientific data are considered, that indigenous people are consulted to find out their interests and their opinions, that public opinion will be able to be expressed, that groups that want to provide information to the process can do so, and so on.

Let me lead by example. Following a request from the Department of Environment, I led a consultation in my constituency of Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier. I have sent you the information.

I am having a hard time assessing the consistency of the entire process. At second reading in the House, there is a time allocation motion. You want to hold consultations and make everyone happy. But here you are actually limiting the participation of parliamentarians in the debate.

Madam Minister, can we hear your comments on the paradox that is jumping out at us?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

My thanks to my colleague for his question.

I always try to answer in French, because I feel that it is really important.

Thank you for leading a consultation in your community, Mr. Godin. I know that there is keen interest in this issue in Quebec.

Of course we have to hold consultations. We have done so all through the process, which started very early. We announced interim principles and afterwards we held consultations. An expert panel consulted Canadians. Four ministers are directly responsible—

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Madam Minister, despite all the respect I have for you, I have to tell you that my time is limited.

I would like to hear you talk about the paradox, about the consultation, and about the illusion that you are creating by saying that you are going to consult everyone while we parliamentarians are being gagged. That is what I would like to hear you talk about.

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I am really pleased to be here to talk to you. I know that you have a process at the committee, that you not only consult ministers, but also industry representatives, indigenous peoples, environmentalists and the public. I really believe in consulting widely, and that is what we have done throughout the process.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Madam Minister, I gather from your answer that you agree with your government gagging us as parliamentarians.

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

We believe that it is really important to listen to Canadians. That is what this committee has the opportunity to do.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

I would like to ask you another question.

Are you able to give us any figures about the impact of the carbon tax in terms of reducing greenhouse gases?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

As I said previously, pollution has a price. We have to work with the provinces and territories. Our program puts a fixed price on pollution

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

I want figures, Madam Minister.

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

…all across the country. Each province and territory must have a price and a system

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Excuse me, Madam Minister. I appreciate your work and and I have a lot of respect for you, but I see that you have no figures to give me.

I will move to another question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

You have two minutes left.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

I now turn to the Minister of Natural Resources on the same subject. This is about the transparency of the consultations and about adopting measures that would allow us to be more effective.

Mr. Minister, do you believe that changing the NEB for a new structure, such as a Canadian energy agency, and that by encumbering the process, you are going to achieve the objectives set out in the act? I seriously question it. I would like to hear what you have to say about the appropriateness of creating a Canadian energy agency when organizations already exist. We could improve those rather than create another one.

[Jim Carr, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Actually, it's clearer now and it's less complex and it's less layered. It's also true in the legislative timelines.

In the case of major projects, 365 days moves to 300 days, less than one year. In the case of CER non-designated projects, it moves down from—

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Mr. Minister, let me stop you right now. I do not want you to talk to me about the process, because we are going to lock horns on the matter of when in the calendar we start the clock. If we consider the process as a whole, I am not sure that the proposed bill has any advantage.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I will yield the floor to my colleague.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Thank you.

Thank you, Ministers, and officials for being here.

Minister McKenna, I have a question for you.

As you know, and as I'm sure we can all agree, we all believe in Canadians' right to peaceful assembly, but the B.C. Supreme Court recently established a buffer on the construction of the Trans Mountain pipeline and has made it clear that protesters must not obstruct the expansion. On Monday, four RCMP officers were physically injured by illegal protestors at the site, including one who was kicked in the head and sustained a head injury, and then two other officers were injured.

I just wonder if you will clearly, for Canadians, as a leader, condemn the violence against RCMP officers by those illegal protestors at the Trans Mountain site.

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

We heard from the Minister of Public Safety in the House. Of course, we have—

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

I'm asking you if you're prepared to condemn it. I guess the answer would be yes, which you could do quickly.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

You are out of time but I am going to give the minister a very quick answer.

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

We certainly support the hard-working RCMP officers in doing a very tough job.