Evidence of meeting #2 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was regulations.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:15 a.m.
Conservative
Kerry-Lynne Findlay Conservative South Surrey—White Rock, BC
Is there any one region where there are more officers than in another, a region that is particularly sensitive from your point of view?
9:15 a.m.
Chief Enforcement Officer, Enforcement Branch, Department of the Environment
I would say that it actually changes. There's no specific hot spot. Of course, there are some industries that are more predominant from one area to another. You would have the vehicle industry more on the Ontario side. There are more border issues. It all depends on the type of regulation you're looking at.
9:15 a.m.
Conservative
Kerry-Lynne Findlay Conservative South Surrey—White Rock, BC
Would your enforcement be more with industry, individuals or a mix?
9:15 a.m.
Chief Enforcement Officer, Enforcement Branch, Department of the Environment
It's a mixture. On the pollution side, it is with the industry. On the wildlife side, it would be more with individuals and smaller companies.
9:15 a.m.
Conservative
Kerry-Lynne Findlay Conservative South Surrey—White Rock, BC
Thank you.
I'm not sure who should answer this question. I know that you developed a clean fuel standard. I understand that in your economic analysis you separated liquid fuels from gaseous and solid fuels.
Is that correct?
9:20 a.m.
Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Environmental Protection Branch, Department of the Environment
Yes, that is correct.
9:20 a.m.
Conservative
Kerry-Lynne Findlay Conservative South Surrey—White Rock, BC
What progress has been made toward setting regulations in this area?
9:20 a.m.
Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Environmental Protection Branch, Department of the Environment
We've been working collaboratively with stakeholders and have had quite broad consultations and discussions at a technical level both with provinces and territories and with stakeholders. We've put out discussion documents and the framework for how the clean fuel standard would operate. We're now advancing with the development of the first phase, which is the liquid phase; that applies primarily to transportation fuels. That work is under way and has been informed by the extensive consultation with stakeholders.
9:20 a.m.
Conservative
Kerry-Lynne Findlay Conservative South Surrey—White Rock, BC
I'm aware of that consultation.
What are your timelines on that issue now? Is it now complete from your point of view? Is it ongoing? If it's ongoing, when do you see that being cut off?
9:20 a.m.
Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Environmental Protection Branch, Department of the Environment
The discussions with respect to the development of the clean fuels standard are ongoing. They will continue throughout the development of the regulatory proposal. We are expecting to be bringing forward draft regulations in the next while. When we do so, that will go out for further public comments and engagement to help inform that development.
In addition, conversations will continue to advance on the approach that should be taken for managing the gaseous and solid streams. We are advancing those conversations as well to help ensure that we have a comprehensive understanding of the issues at play and how that might unfold to help inform the development of those measures.
9:20 a.m.
Conservative
Kerry-Lynne Findlay Conservative South Surrey—White Rock, BC
You have partly anticipated my next question. You said in the next while.
When are you anticipating those regulations coming forward and being made public for consultation?
9:20 a.m.
Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Environmental Protection Branch, Department of the Environment
I don't have the specific time frame. We will see them out and we are expecting they will be coming forward in the near future. The ministers will be considering them in terms of the timeline for putting them out for public consultation.
9:20 a.m.
Conservative
Kerry-Lynne Findlay Conservative South Surrey—White Rock, BC
When you say near future, are you anticipating it to be this year, 2020, or do you mean near future in the next few years?
9:20 a.m.
Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Environmental Protection Branch, Department of the Environment
I anticipate they will be coming forward this year.
9:20 a.m.
Conservative
Kerry-Lynne Findlay Conservative South Surrey—White Rock, BC
With respect to the economic analysis you're doing, you said you have a phase one with liquid fuels. When would your economic analysis be made public?
9:20 a.m.
Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Environmental Protection Branch, Department of the Environment
We have already shared the approach that we're using in terms of the nature of the modelling that would be done. We worked quite closely with stakeholders in understanding their issues, how they operate and what the potential implications are. We did that over the course of the last year or so. When we put out draft regulations, we always put out the draft regulatory impact analysis statement. It contains all the economic analysis as well as the costs and benefits that derive from the regulations. That will come out at the same time as the draft regulations.
9:20 a.m.
Conservative
Kerry-Lynne Findlay Conservative South Surrey—White Rock, BC
Yes, I'm aware.
If it's coming out and we're expecting regulations this year, then we would be seeing that economic analysis this year as well.
9:20 a.m.
Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Environmental Protection Branch, Department of the Environment
That's right. You will see them concurrently; when the draft regulations come, the RIAS comes with them. They go hand in glove.
9:20 a.m.
Liberal
Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you for a tremendous panel. It's always too short, but very informative.
Considering some of the topics we might be studying in future meetings, I might want to test a few with you to see what you have to say. One of them is around recent rulings on Volkswagen. As a co-chair of the automotive caucus, I'm always interested in how government and industry work together to protect the environment. That being said, on January 22, Volkswagen pleaded guilty to illegally importing vehicles equipped with defeat devices in contravention of our environmental protection laws. Similar jurisdictions like the U.S. and the EU moved more quickly on this issue than Canada did.
Could you talk about the process we follow in situations like this, where we need to investigate the charges on industry?
9:25 a.m.
Chief Enforcement Officer, Enforcement Branch, Department of the Environment
Volkswagen was a very complex case, and it was also one of our largest. When the department found out about the situation in the U.S., there was a discussion with the enforcement branch and with the vehicle testing group.
Actually, I'm going to turn to Helen. Maybe you want to give a quick overview of what happened. Then I'll go back to the chronology of it.
9:25 a.m.
Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Environmental Protection Branch, Department of the Environment
Sure, absolutely.
In the administration of our vehicles regulation, we actually undertake the vehicle testing. We also work collaboratively with our partners in the United States. We actually have a shared testing program, and we share testing results. We were starting to see this information surface, particularly with the study that was done by the ICCT. Then we started to undertake purchasing and acquiring of vehicles so that we could put in place a testing program for them. Because of the nature of the defeat device, as we now know, it was programmed into the operation of the vehicle. What it did was this: The computer program would recognize that it was on a test cycle and would tell the vehicle to put on all its emissions control devices, but when the vehicle was on the road, it would take them off.
