Evidence of meeting #2 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was regulations.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Hilary Geller  Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic Policy Branch, Department of the Environment
Jacqueline Gonçalves  Director General, Science and Risk Assessment, Department of the Environment
Matt Jones  Assistant Deputy Minister, Pan-Canadian Framework Implementation Office, Department of the Environment
Diane Campbell  Assistant Deputy Minister, Meteorological Service of Canada, Department of the Environment
Sue Milburn-Hopwood  Assistant Deputy Minister, Canadian Wildlife Service, Department of the Environment
Helen Ryan  Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Environmental Protection Branch, Department of the Environment
Anne-Marie Pelletier  Chief Enforcement Officer, Enforcement Branch, Department of the Environment
Judy Meltzer  Director General, Carbon Pricing Bureau, Department of the Environment
Catherine Stewart  Director General, Climate Change International and Chief Negotiator for Climate Change, Department of the Environment
Clerk of the Committee  Mr. Alexandre Roger

10:20 a.m.

Conservative

Kerry-Lynne Findlay Conservative South Surrey—White Rock, BC

As I said, to say you're going to exceed it is an ambition that's stated. We don't know today what that exactly looks like.

10:20 a.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Pan-Canadian Framework Implementation Office, Department of the Environment

Matt Jones

That's right. I don't have a number.

10:20 a.m.

Conservative

Kerry-Lynne Findlay Conservative South Surrey—White Rock, BC

One of the programs we've heard a lot about is tree planting. I'm not sure who wants to answer this, but my understanding is that the government has stated that it intends to plant two billion trees over 10 years. Has that planting started, and if not, when will it start?

10:20 a.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic Policy Branch, Department of the Environment

Hilary Geller

I'll take that question, Madam Chair.

Tree planting is part of a bigger bucket, which we call nature-based climate solutions. It's about how trees, grasslands, wetlands, agricultural soil, etc. can contribute to the sink that takes carbon.

Our colleagues at Natural Resources are leading the work on trees—the Canadian Forest Service, which is part of Natural Resources Canada—and we're working closely with them in terms of some of the co-benefits that the trees could provide to caribou and nature in general.

We are doing a lot of analysis right now on the other part of that equation, which is wetlands, grasslands, building on some existing programs and looking at more. In addition, Agriculture Canada, of course, is involved in the soil.

I would say that it's a relatively new area. The world is paying a lot more attention to that side of the equation, and I think there will be a lot more detail that colleagues at NRCan will be able to provide, probably in the next month or so.

10:20 a.m.

Conservative

Kerry-Lynne Findlay Conservative South Surrey—White Rock, BC

I understand it's part of an overall program. I'm familiar with bogs and grassland, because I come from an area where we have those, which is great.

You can't tell me today when that program on the trees is starting. Is that what you're telling me?

10:20 a.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic Policy Branch, Department of the Environment

Hilary Geller

I can tell you that the program needs money to implement, and—

10:20 a.m.

Conservative

Kerry-Lynne Findlay Conservative South Surrey—White Rock, BC

So it hasn't started.

10:20 a.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic Policy Branch, Department of the Environment

Hilary Geller

It hasn't started, except that the analysis is well under way, so it will be ready to go.

10:20 a.m.

Conservative

Kerry-Lynne Findlay Conservative South Surrey—White Rock, BC

I also understand that the tree planting will be incremental—I believe that's the wording—in other words, where trees cannot already be planted. I'm trying to understand where this is going to take place. If there's already an obligation to plant on Crown land, does “incremental” mean that the planting would be done on other than Crown land?

10:20 a.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic Policy Branch, Department of the Environment

Hilary Geller

Madam Chair, I think it may be most useful to the committee if we asked our colleagues at NRCan, who really are most familiar with the details, to provide some information.

10:20 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

You have 30 seconds.

10:20 a.m.

Conservative

Kerry-Lynne Findlay Conservative South Surrey—White Rock, BC

Well, thank you.

10:20 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

Thank you.

Go ahead, Mr. Scarpaleggia.

10:20 a.m.

Liberal

Francis Scarpaleggia Liberal Lac-Saint-Louis, QC

I would just like to defer to Mr. Baker for a few seconds, so you can get the rest of his answer.

10:20 a.m.

Liberal

Yvan Baker Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON

Thank you very much.

I'm taking up Mr. Scarpaleggia's time, so please answer in 30 seconds maximum. I just want to give you the opportunity to finish answering the question that you were hoping to get to.

10:20 a.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic Policy Branch, Department of the Environment

Hilary Geller

That's very kind. I just wanted to say that we are really excited about some sectors of the economy that haven't been superactive participants in the climate change challenge up until now. The one I was going to reference was the financial sector, where there is real interest, real movement and real momentum. I think we'll be seeing more there.

That's what I was going to say. Thank you very much.

10:20 a.m.

Liberal

Francis Scarpaleggia Liberal Lac-Saint-Louis, QC

It was said earlier that Water Survey of Canada was one of the cornerstones of the department. It was created several years later, in 1971. However, when the topic was water surveys, only the quantity of water in Canada being measured was discussed.

Does Environment and Climate Change Canada have a similar alternate program to measure the quality of water across Canada?

10:20 a.m.

Director General, Science and Risk Assessment, Department of the Environment

Jacqueline Gonçalves

Our colleagues from Health Canada have programs to measure and monitor the quality of water.

10:20 a.m.

Liberal

Francis Scarpaleggia Liberal Lac-Saint-Louis, QC

Is that done for waterways from coast to coast to coast?

10:20 a.m.

Director General, Science and Risk Assessment, Department of the Environment

Jacqueline Gonçalves

Yes, it is done across the country.

10:20 a.m.

Liberal

Francis Scarpaleggia Liberal Lac-Saint-Louis, QC

Okay. You say that it is not only done for drinking water, but is applied generally, correct?

10:25 a.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic Policy Branch, Department of the Environment

Hilary Geller

Our colleague Diane Campbell would be interested in a word or two.

10:25 a.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Meteorological Service of Canada, Department of the Environment

Diane Campbell

Yes, I'll just supplement that. With respect to general water quality conditions in rivers, we do have programs at the federal level. There are several ministries that collect water quality data in rivers, lakes, etc. Some of the initiatives are broad. For example, there are programs that have been carried out for decades that measure water quality conditions in the Great Lakes.

10:25 a.m.

Liberal

Francis Scarpaleggia Liberal Lac-Saint-Louis, QC

That would be very important, given the evolution of the Canadian Environmental Protection Act and of toxic substances management.

My second question is about subsidies related to fossil fuels. I did not quite understand the concept of inefficient subsidy.

Can you give us an example of a non-tax inefficient subsidy among the four elements you have defined as being inefficient subsidies?

10:25 a.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic Policy Branch, Department of the Environment

Hilary Geller

Thank you very much for the question. There are various definitions, but an example of an inefficient fossil fuel subsidy would be one that would encourage the production of fossil fuels. You'll see, for example, that one of the subsidies that have been eliminated is around the tax advantage for production of oil from the oil sands.

An example of something that is not considered inefficient, and it is sort of contemplated in the G20 context, is subsidies that support remote, perhaps economically disadvantaged communities so they have an energy source to heat their homes. You do see programs like that, which, by some definitions, could be considered an inefficient fossil fuel subsidy, but it's contemplated under the G20 rules that this sort of thing would not count.

Those are just a couple of examples.