Evidence of meeting #5 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was groundwater.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:50 a.m.
Bloc
Monique Pauzé Bloc Repentigny, QC
Thank you, Ms. Leach and Mr. Hayes.
I've attended a number of Ms. Gelfand's presentations over the past four years.
Mr. Hayes, are you the new permanent commissioner?
9:50 a.m.
Interim Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development
I'm the interim commissioner.
9:50 a.m.
Bloc
9:50 a.m.
Interim Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development
Right now, we're waiting for the appointment of the permanent Auditor General, because the Auditor General appoints the commissioner.
9:55 a.m.
Bloc
Monique Pauzé Bloc Repentigny, QC
Okay.
I want to go back to Ms. Gelfand's last presentation. She found that the Office of the Auditor General's recommendations weren't being followed much. I remember her last words: all this must change. I had the impression that she was establishing her political legacy, in a way.
Will you proceed with your work while taking into account the previous recommendations?
In my opinion, we can't possibly disregard all the recommendations that have been made over the past four years. I think that we should take into consideration what has already been done.
What do you think? Do you plan to follow up on these recommendations?
9:55 a.m.
Interim Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development
Thank you for the question.
Recommendations from previous reports play an important role in the selection of our performance audits. Some examples of recommendations, in the work of the former commissioner and in our current work, have been addressed. For example, recommendations on the transportation of dangerous goods will be addressed in our audit in May.
However, as Ms. Gelfand said, we sometimes find that the government doesn't follow up on our recommendations. In my opinion, parliamentary committees could follow up. For example, the Standing Committee on Public Accounts requires departments to prepare an action plan. It reviews these action plans and then asks officials to appear again in order to check whether progress has been made.
We think that this is a good practice.
9:55 a.m.
Bloc
Monique Pauzé Bloc Repentigny, QC
Thank you.
I'm particularly interested in point 12 of your presentation. You said that environmental and sustainable development issues must be incorporated into all the government's work for Parliament. Is this being done?
Does each department or each piece of legislation have an analysis grid based on the sustainable development goals?
Are you working along these lines?
9:55 a.m.
Interim Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development
We use the sustainable development goals, or SDGs, to determine which audits the Auditor General and I will conduct. Not every audit is necessarily related to the SDGs, but many audits are related to them.
SDG 16 concerns responsible government. This is part of our financial audits.
9:55 a.m.
Bloc
Monique Pauzé Bloc Repentigny, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Mr. Hayes, one of the last audits tabled by Commissioner Gelfand concerned the inefficient subsidies for oil companies. Has anything been done since that audit? Is this issue related to point 14, where you said that you'll be tabling an audit this fall on the government's progress?
I want to know whether the government has made any progress in this area.
9:55 a.m.
Interim Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development
We haven't reviewed this aspect since the most recent audit on fossil fuel subsidies. The purpose of that audit was to identify what constitutes inefficient subsidies. We don't know the progress made by the two departments in this area.
9:55 a.m.
Liberal
9:55 a.m.
NDP
Laurel Collins NDP Victoria, BC
First, thank you so much for your presentation and the work that you're doing.
In her outgoing report your predecessor said:
For decades, successive federal governments have failed to reach their targets for reducing greenhouse gas emissions, and the government is not ready to adapt to a changing climate. This must change.
From your perspective, have we seen the necessary changes by this government to meet the targets and adapt to climate change?
10 a.m.
Interim Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development
In our 2017 reports we talked about the work the government was doing with the pan-Canadian framework as a foundation piece. The consultation started the ball rolling. Those were our most recent audits directly on climate change.
We talked about the gap between the 2020 and 2030 target and our current emissions. We also talked about adaptation and the fact that, quite frankly, our government wasn't doing enough to be prepared for adapting to climate change impacts.
I mentioned in my opening statement that we will come back to the climate change discussion. As we look at risks across both the economic and social angles of our country, climate change is a considerable risk. There's no shortage of topics we want to look at in the climate change area, whether it's sustainable finance or the impacts of severe weather. Climate change generally will be a topic for us.
10 a.m.
NDP
Laurel Collins NDP Victoria, BC
That's great.
To follow up on Ms. Findlay's question, going to your report in the fall of 2019 and the progress report on the federal sustainable development strategy, as Ms. Findlay mentioned there's the 66 megatonne gap between Canada's 2030 emission target and the reported projected emissions. You found that the projected greenhouse gas emission values presented in the progress report did not support the Environment and Climate Change Canada statement that current and planned actions would enable Canada to meet its targets of reducing greenhouse gas emissions by 30% by 2030.
I'm just curious. Have you found any evidence since then or seen any evidence from ECCC that they are accurately tracking their progress on reducing emissions and meeting targets?
10 a.m.
Interim Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development
The issue we took with the progress report was that they made the statement you have quoted that they were on track. The information in the progress report and the other information we were able to see did not support that statement.
We haven't audited their progress since that point.
10 a.m.
Interim Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development
Climate change, as I mentioned, will be a topic we will come back to.
10 a.m.
NDP
10 a.m.
Interim Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development
That is a really likely subject for our future audits. I can't say yet because we haven't settled on our forward audit plan past 2021 right now.
10 a.m.
NDP
Laurel Collins NDP Victoria, BC
Right.
I want to follow up on another of Ms. Findlay's questions about CEPA enforcement. You mentioned toxic substances, that the majority of them were used by dry cleaners, small businesses, and were not necessarily the riskiest for our health and environment.
Is this an area you're continuing to follow, and has there been any progress in addressing your recommendations?
10 a.m.
Interim Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development
We haven't looked at that yet, and I'm not sure if that is one of the audits that is going to be.... It won't be before 2021.
As an office we are also looking at producing a new web-based product that will show progress, where we can, on work that has been done by departments. The first iteration of that is likely to come up on our website in the spring. Hopefully, it will show where we can measure that departments have taken some action. At this point, though, I don't have an answer for you.
