Environment Committee on May 31st, 2021

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Maybe you could provide that answer after we vote.

I don't see any other hands. We should move on with the vote.

Yes, Mr. Albas.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Just on that point, Mr. Chair, one of the things we were hoping to have in Bill C-12 that, unfortunately, due to previous amendments, we weren't able to table was to have a social and economic lens. As I have said, there are certain regions of the country that will be exposed.

I would just ask Mr. Moffet, when he gets us the list of economic sectors and gives us the rundown on that, if that is broken down by province as well. A lot of industries out west, for example, and in Newfoundland and Labrador and even the Northwest Territories have aspirations for their own economic development. I certainly want to know if this is only going to be reported on an industry-by-industry basis or if there will be some sort of regional breakdown. I think that would be helpful.

[John Moffet]

Mr. Chair, I can provide that answer now.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Go ahead.

[John Moffet]

The UNFCCC guidance that we follow requires us to report against the major sources. Those sources are heavy industry, buildings, agriculture, oil and gas, transport, electricity, waste and others. Canada also does further disaggregate those by province and territory—in other words, each source by jurisdiction.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Okay. Great.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Will that be included, then, under amendment G-8?

[John Moffet]

Yes. That's the goal. That's correct.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

I have a further question, Mr. Chair.

On the information that we send to UNFCCC, is this largely duplicative from that? Is this independent work, or is the minister...? By adopting this, are we literally just saying that what you report to the UNFCCC now has to also be reported to Parliament in these blocks?

Is it redundant reporting, or is it just reporting to, obviously, both Houses?

[John Moffet]

It's precisely the same information, but it's associated with each plan, so you would get it on specific timelines as prescribed in the bill.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Okay. Essentially, this is the same information. It's just that we're reporting to both Houses on a slightly different time basis. Is that correct?

[John Moffet]

That's correct.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

There is nothing really new in this other than the specificity or the prescribing that the minister shall include this information in the reports.

[John Moffet]

Yes, and again, this is the minimum that must be included in each plan.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Okay.

Since we are going to be voting on this, Mr. Chair.... Conservatives certainly believe in keeping our international targets when it comes to the ones before us. By the same token, though, this sounds to me like the Liberals are simply responding to concerns in the public and trying to say, “We'll just add a bunch of things that specify to make it look like we're chalking up this bill to be stronger.”

In fact, what they're doing is just listing things that the minister will already have to do, or at least this will present it as a prescriptive form rather than anything new or above what Bill C-12 originally intended when it first came to the House of Commons.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

I see no other hands up. We'll go to the vote.

(Amendment agreed to: yeas 7; nays 4 [See Minutes of Proceedings])

Now we are on amendment BQ-11.

Madame Michaud.

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

As I was saying earlier, the amendment seeks to clarify the content of the government's action plan. We propose that the minister make each of the points listed explicit so that each item can be independently assessed.

We are adding a description of how greenhouse gas emissions are calculated, tools for measuring progress, and tools for assessing impact. This is kind of what was in the Bill C-215 that I introduced, which we thought was a little bit more restrictive in terms of transparency, how the minister is putting his plan into action, and how greenhouse gas emissions are actually being reduced. So we're proposing this amendment in the interest of accountability and transparency.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you.

Are there any members of the committee who would like to debate Ms. Michaud's amendment?

Mr. Albas, you have the floor.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I first want to thank Madam Michaud for putting this forward. She has certainly been an advocate in the House of Commons. We don't always agree on issues, but I hope we both agree that she's certainly doing her part in doing what she can to put forward ideas that are important to her and, I would imagine, to her constituents.

Also, I think she clearly has seen that Bill C-12 is not the same as her own private member's legislation. I think her experience from working on that legislation is certainly being brought to bear here.

What I would ask Mr. Moffet is very similar to my line of questioning on the previous amendment, G-8. Can the minister, without prompting from Parliament, introduce all of these things in Bill C-12?

Again, is this something for which the minister already has the power in terms of “a description of the measures to be taken” and adding a description of the method for calculating greenhouse gas emissions? With all the amendments we've had thus far, is there anything prohibiting the minister from being able to do this if Bill C-12 were to pass as is between both Houses?

[John Moffet]

I have two points.

First, yes, the minister could do this.

Second, of course we'll get to these provisions, but clauses 25 and 26 are relevant to this discussion. Clause 25 requires that the methodology used to report on emissions must be consistent with the methodology we use for our NIRs, and those methodologies are prescribed by the UNFCCC. However, clause 26 allows the GIC to make regulations specifying additional methodologies that might be relevant for clarifying how reporting would be done on emissions and removals to achieve net zero, for example.

That's a long-winded answer, but the short answer is that yes, the minister has the authority to provide all of the descriptions already in the act.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

I think Madam Michaud would say that, if this doesn't pass, she will just haunt the minister responsible until it's done.

I'll leave it to Madam Michaud if she has anything else to add, or any other member.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

I don't think anyone has anything to add, so we'll go to the vote.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Mr. Chair, I have a question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Okay.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

This question is for Mr. Moffet.

If we get into the methods, the tools, etc., are we venturing into provincial territory? Wouldn't the provinces be required to do a lot of these things to achieve the goals that are set out in Bill C-12?