Evidence of meeting #36 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was target.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Clerk of the Committee  Ms. Angela Crandall
Émilie Thivierge  Legislative Clerk
John Moffet  Assistant Deputy Minister, Environmental Protection Branch, Department of the Environment

5:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

Madam Michaud can correct me, but it seems like Madam Michaud is saying that we should be allowed to change the plan if it needs to be more ambitious to reach a more stringent target.

Is that what Madam Michaud is saying?

5:25 p.m.

Bloc

Kristina Michaud Bloc Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC

Could you repeat the question, Mr. Chair?

5:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

You're not talking about the target; you're talking about the plan. You're saying there should be an opportunity to amend the plan so that it achieves a more ambitious target.

Is that the meaning of your amendment? I may not have understood it properly.

5:25 p.m.

Bloc

Kristina Michaud Bloc Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC

In fact, this amendment was drafted before the vote on amendment G-3, which specifies that the nationally determined contribution may be amended upward and will be reported in accordance with the Paris Agreement.

As I said, the argument behind this amendment is that, if we fail, we don't want to change the target, we just want to change the means. That is the purpose of this amendment as worded. However, amendment G-3 changed all that.

5:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

Okay.

So you're not asking to withdraw the amendment. This one isn't redundant.

5:25 p.m.

Bloc

Kristina Michaud Bloc Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC

Yes.

We can vote on the amendment.

5:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

Mr. Bachrach.

We're getting close to 5:30 and I have to pull the plug on it, but—

5:25 p.m.

NDP

Taylor Bachrach NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Mr. Chair, I was just going to ask if we might proceed to a vote. I agree that some people are still a bit confused, but I think it's because of the previous—

5:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

Let's have a vote.

5:25 p.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC

Mr. Chair, again, maybe Mr. Moffet can be completely concrete, because he even had me going down a certain path where I was thinking about voting for this. I want to make sure that I understand 100% that what Madam Michaud is intending to do to the bill will do that. From the earlier explanation, I went down a garden path. I'd like to get back on the correct path.

5:25 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Environmental Protection Branch, Department of the Environment

John Moffet

You have my apologies for taking you down the wrong path.

Clause 11, as it's currently written in the bill, allows the minister to amend a target or a plan, again, provided that any new target must be more ambitious than the previous one. The BQ-12 amendment drops the target from this authority, so this authority would preclude the minister from amending a target. It would be limited to enabling the minister to amend a plan in a manner consistent with the purposes of the act.

As I understand from Madam Michaud, the objective was to ensure that the minister does not amend a target to make it less stringent. In my view, that's already been covered by a previously adopted amendment that ensured targets were not revised to be less ambitious. As I earlier indicated, it's the government's opinion that having the ability to amend both targets and plans is necessary to ensure they account for emerging science or other such issues.

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC

Thank you, Mr. Moffet. I appreciate that.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

5:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

Okay. We will vote on amendment BQ-12 now.

(Amendment negatived: nays 10; yeas 1 [See Minutes of Proceedings])

Is there any way we can finish the clause, or do we really have to disconnect at the moment, Madam Clerk?

5:30 p.m.

Legislative Clerk

Émilie Thivierge

I don't believe we can go much further than where we are at the moment.

5:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

Okay, we'll stop here. We'll continue with PV-19 on Wednesday—

5:30 p.m.

Green

Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC

Mr. Chair, I don't know what time we're meeting on Wednesday. Nothing's posted on the website.

5:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

I'll tell you. It's 3:30, but there are many votes so we'll probably get started late. We're seeking to do a three-hour meeting if we can, but we won't know until the last minute.

If we start late, plus three hours, I don't know what time that will be. I would encourage members not to book other appointments and activities. The committee motion that we adopted authorized us to do three hours. We're working to get three hours, but it's still up in the air. It will be at least two hours. I don't know if we'll start at 3:30, 4:00 or 4:10 because of all the votes, but we'll do our best to start on time and to get three hours in.

I hope that answers your question, Ms. May.

5:30 p.m.

Green

Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC

It's certainly helpful. I'm in an awkward position as I'm enforced by your own motion to be here but not told in advance when we're meeting next.

5:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

I know. It's an imperfect world.

5:30 p.m.

Green

Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC

Yes, I know. I appreciate your patience, Mr. Chair.

Thank you.

5:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

I will bring down the gavel and wish everyone a good evening. I'm looking forward to seeing everyone on Wednesday afternoon.

The meeting is adjourned.