Environment Committee on June 7th, 2021

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Mr. Redekopp.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

I just want to comment a little further on this with some personal examples. In my prior life, I was an accountant. I guess I still am technically an accountant. I worked for many years, as I said, at a manufacturing company, and we measured a lot of things. It has been said previously in this committee that you manage what you measure.

A lot of what's we have discussed so far about this legislation has been focused on what we're doing to reduce greenhouse gases, and rightly so. The nice thing about this amendment is that it kind of forces us to look at balancing some of the pieces of this puzzle. If we focus on just one thing, we may miss some important details on other things. This is one of those very critical pieces of the puzzle.

We can, to use a simple example, force all of our vehicles to be electric, but if we don't have the charging capacity to deal with that, then we're actually not getting to where we want to go. That's what I like about this. It allows us to take a bit of a more balanced approach to some of the metrics we are watching, making sure that while we might achieve goals on this side of the fence, we've also achieved goals on the other side of the fence so that this whole thing is going to work when it's done. If we don't look at the whole picture, we could end up with something that isn't doable or functional at the end of the day. Ultimately that would let Canadians down, and they wouldn't be able to do the things they need to do if we do this wrong.

I have another example, just to further reinforce this. I live in a condo building in downtown Saskatoon. We have a three- or four-floor parkade. At the moment, we have just a couple of electric vehicles plugging into the power that's in that building. As more and more electric cars start showing up in our particular parkade, that's going to start causing stress to the electrical power grid that's coming into the building. I think it's fair to say that, at some point, we're going to have to add another trunk line coming into the building in order to handle the capacity there. If you look around—

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Does the amendment deal with this, or is that something you should maybe bring to the attention of...?

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

I think the point is about measuring what we're talking about in an electric grid, so yes, I think it's exactly what we're dealing with.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Okay.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

My point is that the electric grid in Saskatoon runs down the back alley of my building and other buildings. If you look outside of my building, you'll see multiple other multi-storey buildings that are all going to have the same issue. It's not just a simple matter of running another power line into the building. We're actually going to have to add an entire trunk line down the back alley to service all of these buildings. You can multiply that out by multiple times.

That's why I think this is an especially critical point to look at. If we do not get this right, then we won't be able to achieve the results on the other side—or we may achieve the results to a certain point, and then the whole house of cards will fall apart because we didn't deal with this one issue. That's why I'm saying I think this is a particularly good point to look at, because it really helps us to see the balanced picture. As I said, you manage what you measure, and I think it's important that we measure this and manage it properly.

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Mr. Albas.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

I have just one additional point. I'll try to keep it as brief as possible.

The federal government has made investments in Muskrat Falls, for example, because we know that is a key feature in that province's future. If you don't have energy, then it's difficult to industrialize in a way that is efficient and that can also reduce emissions. I know there are problems with that project, but that is all the more reason, to my mind, we should be giving a summary of our electrical grid.

Again, from Muskrat Falls to Site C to much of SaskPower's infrastructure, what we haven't discussed are the lines. Someone said to me that if Tesla came to Canada today—if he were alive—he would note that much of the technology we rely on for the transmission of power, whether between communities, within communities, between provinces or between countries, is very old. In fact, members have made many references to how they would like to see things like a smart grid that would be able to deal with many of the concerns about people plugging in their vehicles all at the same time.

There are ways we can deal with these things, Mr. Chair, but unfortunately if we just leave this as an issue, then we're going to see a patchwork. Quite honestly, Mr. Chair, I don't know about you, but in my riding people just refer to the government. They don't refer to the provincial government or the federal government. I know that's a distinction that we make, and we must make, because we believe—

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

My constituents seem to know the difference. I'm just saying—

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Mr. Chair, are you saying that there is an intelligence level difference?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

No, not at all.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

I don't think that's a fair statement to make, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

I think everyone understands that there are different levels of government.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Mr. Chair, I'd like just to finish, if you wouldn't mind.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Sure. Yes.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Okay. Thank you very much.

Perhaps I was a little agitated, Mr. Chair, because it seemed that you were saying that somehow your constituents are a little different from mine.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

No.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

I would say that most citizens right now, especially during COVID, are trying to make their lives work as best they can with all the different things that are going on.

I will tell you, because I share an office in Summerland with an MLA, a member of the Legislative Assembly, Dan Ashton, that we often have people who come in and don't know who they're supposed to speak to. Are they supposed to speak to their MLA or their MP? That's where we see this a lot, Mr. Chair.

Again, this is an area where we could give people that information in one summary, so I hope that all members will vote in favour of this. This is a good and particular amendment. This won't be difficult in terms of time.

I guess I could ask a question of the government representatives here, but you know what? I think I've made a pretty good case, Mr. Chair, so rather than prolonging this, I think I'll just let people vote for it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Okay. We'll call the vote.

(Amendment negatived: nays 6, yeas 5)

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Unfortunately, Mr. Albas, it doesn't pass.

Shall clause 15 carry?

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Mr. Chair, I'd like to speak a little bit to—

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Yes, of course.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Mr. Chair, we've seen a number of suggestions brought to this table—or this virtual table—and unfortunately, the government, supported by the NDP, has voted against every single one of them.

I want to relay my thanks to Madam Michaud for her support on the last motion. I think her Province of Quebec—

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

I'm sorry, Mr. Albas. I neglected to say that it's clause 15 as amended.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Again, the only amendments that were accepted by this committee were the ones coming from the government. Let's be mindful, Mr. Chair. It seems that they are continuing the path they have taken with the NDP.

Again, I don't want to belabour the point, because I think Mr. Bachrach has done an able job on other issues with this committee. I just find it strange because a lot of the information that is here, or the amendments that have come forward, really don't expand the nature of the bill or make it more accountable. In fact, in some cases, the bill allows the minister to have sole discretion as to which provinces, which territories, which first nations and which municipalities seem to be aligned with the government and can use this as a political communications tool.

I would just say that we tried, as Conservatives, to put forward amendments that we felt would make the bill better. One was in reference to including a summary of all provinces. As I said earlier, when people come into my joint office in Summerland, and even to some extent in Westbank, where I also have an office at the Westbank Towne Centre, they don't always know the difference between us. They just want to share their opinion on what government should be doing. Sometimes they come in with different needs.

It's important, first of all, that there should be a proper summary, where a minister doesn't get to check that. Our particular amendment would have done that. Also, then, there's just the growing consciousness of the need for action on climate change and more interest that people have on how they can do that—purchasing an electric car, for example, or some sort of variation of an electric vehicle. I hear that the F-150 Lightning is impressing a lot of people. Maybe it will impress people in my riding. I haven't heard that yet, but people have been asking about the status of our electrical grid and its ability to deal with this. I am sure, Mr. Chair, that some of the witnesses I asked about this felt that would have been a good change to clause 15.

Clause 15 as it stands right now, as amended, I feel is not the best clause that could go forward. Conservatives will be voting against this particular provision. We think it's a bit of a shame, Mr. Chair, because there was an offer to work together to spotlight all provinces and territories as they try to meet their climate targets, which is incredibly important. If we do not have all provinces and territories working towards this, what will end up happening, Mr. Chair, is that the federal government, with its own jurisdiction, will not be enough.

In most provincial jurisdictions, you have housing policies such as building codes. You also have transportation. You also have energy systems and their regulation. If we cannot give people a snapshot of how their provinces are doing.... This particular clause, as amended, will not do that. In fact, like I said, it allows the minister to isolate or only report on the provinces, municipalities or indigenous first nations communities that best....

Conservatives will be voting a big no against this, Mr. Chair. Again, like I said, it's a shame. We came to this table with amendments, feeling that we were offering things that were not very political—not political at all—but actually were things that would help build better understanding and better governance for this country. Without information, Mr. Chair, without having these things in front of people, people can't judge whether or not their government is being effective. That could be provincial or that could be federal. This particular clause as amended unfortunately does not leap over the bar. I think we could have done better.

As we go forward with other amendments, Mr. Chair, I hope that perhaps the government or perhaps the NDP will change their minds and we'll see maybe some creativity or maybe some willingness to be flexible, to allow for other voices and for amendments to come to the bill, or else this is really just going to be a bill that has just the bare democratic mandate.

That's important to have in our system, but it's not the only way that the government could choose. It could choose to be a little more open and to work with all parties. That's something that Minister Wilkinson has said time and time again.

Unfortunately, Mr. Chair, with all the times that the minister said he wanted to work in good faith with all parties on the back end, it seems that isn't the case in this bill...in this clause as amended today.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.