Evidence of meeting #38 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was amendment.
A video is available from Parliament.
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
We're now at whether clause 14 shall carry, because we've gone through all the amendments. I believe that's where we left off.
Shall clause 14 carry as amended?
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
No. I'd like a recorded division, please, Mr. Chair.
(Clause 14 as amended agreed to: yeas 7; nays 4)
(On clause 15)
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
3:55 p.m.
Green
Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
We had similar amendments the other day, in order to ensure that we have more frequent assessment reports. As noted, we now have a number of amendments that mean that the first part of my amendment that “the Minister must prepare at least two assessment reports before 2030” will appear to have been covered.
The critical last part of this amendment is, “and at least one assessment report per year between 2030 and 2050.” This is an attempt, of course, to fortify a bill that doesn't have carbon budgets in it, so annual reports will assist in remedying that deficiency.
Thank you. Mr. Chair.
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'll ask Mr. Moffet or perhaps Mr. Ngan—whoever can best answer this.
In reference to Madam May's amendment, PV-24, she did say, on the second point, “at least one assessment report per year between 2030 and 2050.”
Mr. Ngan, earlier you said that the information that would be presented sometimes takes 18 months to gather. Could you tell me how that fits into this amendment?
3:55 p.m.
Vincent Ngan Director General, Horizontal Policy, Engagement and Coordination, Department of the Environment
Thank you for the question.
This question actually pertains to whether the bill should include, on an annual basis, the issuance of an assessment report. The importance of this would be, as Mr. Albas indicated, that due to the collection and the provision of data from Statistics Canada as well as from stakeholders, there's usually 18 months between that particular year and the year we could actually assemble the national inventory report.
That being said, I think it is important to take into account the following facts. In terms of Bill C-12, which is the net-zero emissions accountability act, currently there is the annual projections report that provides information to Canadians as well as shares internationally whether Canada is on track with a particular greenhouse gas emissions target. Of course, for the past few years, the reporting has been on 2030. Every year, the national inventory report, although with an 18-month data lag, also identified the state of play in terms of Canada's emissions level.
I want to reassure Canadians. If they want to know, with a particular milestone, that we are on track, based on empirical data from past years' emissions levels, those reports will be able to provide a very clear picture.
I will leave it to the committee to determine whether that amendment is appropriate or necessary. I think that will be my answer.
4 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
Could I ask one other brief question in regard to that?
You mentioned that much of the same information is reported through other reports. Could you let the listeners tuning in at home know what is done already? Would this be more or less similar information supplied, or would this be something new?
4 p.m.
Director General, Horizontal Policy, Engagement and Coordination, Department of the Environment
Thank you for the question.
Canada, like any other country, must comply with the UNFCCC methodology and reporting requirements. The information definitely is very consistent year after year, and it is consistent with international practices. Canada would not be venturing into developing its own methodology that is inconsistent with reporting requirements set by the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change.
The assessment report, as well as the progress report here, stipulates in legislation the same methodology and requirements to ensure consistency and transparency. I agree with you that it's very consistent and also that there is greater clarity in terms of the types of reports and in terms of the progress that the Bill C-12 process entrenches in legislation.
4 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
This is my last question.
When we do report to UNFCCC on our yearly updates, that information is also public. Is that correct?
4 p.m.
Director General, Horizontal Policy, Engagement and Coordination, Department of the Environment
That is correct.
4 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I appreciate Mr. Ngan weighing in on that.
4 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
The vote is called on PV-24.
(Amendment negatived: nays 10; yeas 1 [See Minutes of Proceedings])
We will go now to G-12.
Ms. Saks.
4 p.m.
Liberal
Ya'ara Saks Liberal York Centre, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, colleagues.
Mr. Chair, I'm happy to introduce a motion to modify subclause 15(2) of the Canadian net-zero emissions accountability act.
This motion ensures that the assessment reports will include additional information, something we've heard much about, such as a summary of Canada's most recent official GHG emissions inventory known as the NIR; information submitted by Canada under its international commitments on climate change; and an assessment of the co-operative measures, whether they be with the provinces or other governments, and how they contribute to Canada's efforts to achieve its targets. This motion strengthens the act by consolidating, in its assessment reports, information already contained in Canada's other reports related to GHG emissions.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I appreciate MP Saks's putting forward her amendment. I have just a few questions for Mr. Ngan or perhaps Mr. Moffet, whoever deems themselves most capable of responding to it.
Let's just start with paragraph (a), “a summary of Canada's most recent official greenhouse gas emissions inventory and information, relevant to the report, that Canada submitted under its international commitments with respect to climate change”. This is very similar information to what we discussed about Canada sending its report to the UNFCCC. Is that correct?
4:05 p.m.
Director General, Horizontal Policy, Engagement and Coordination, Department of the Environment
That is correct, Mr. Albas.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
Would this be on an annual basis or would this simply be when the minister deems it?
4:05 p.m.
Director General, Horizontal Policy, Engagement and Coordination, Department of the Environment
The assessment report is actually produced according to the schedule of the reporting cycle. The emissions level for a particular milestone year would actually not be fully available until 18 months later. Therefore, the assessment report will actually be required when the national inventory for that particular year becomes available. There is a specific timeline to make sure that, with the release of the national inventory report for that year, the assessment report will also be released in a timely manner.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
This dovetails with what is already envisioned in the original version of Bill C-12. There's no extra work, other than just to embed the extra information into the minister's report. Is that correct?
4:05 p.m.
Director General, Horizontal Policy, Engagement and Coordination, Department of the Environment
That is correct, Mr. Albas. The reporting frequency has not been changed, but greater specification and transparency have been included through this amendment.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
This might be a better question for Mr. Moffet.
Part (b) of MP Saks' amendment, again that's G-12, says it would add, after line 29 on page 6, the following:
(c.1) an assessment of how the key cooperative measures or agreements with provinces or other governments in Canada described in the relevant emissions reduction plan contributed to Canada's efforts to achieve the national greenhouse gas emissions target for that year;
This amendment refers to “cooperative measures or agreements”.
Mr. Moffet, could you please explain what is meant by that? I don't believe that's defined in the bill.
4:05 p.m.
John Moffet Assistant Deputy Minister, Environmental Protection Branch, Department of the Environment
That's correct; it's not. The bill will be interpreted broadly if a plan does not need to include such a co-operative agreement, but it may include a co-operative agreement. What this says is that, as Mr. Ngan has explained, the assessment report basically asks, once we get to a target year, how we did. This would require that, among other information, there be information about any such agreements and whether they were effective or not. It doesn't require that there be such agreements, but if there are, then this ensures the reporting is as comprehensive as possible.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
When you say “key cooperative measures or agreements”, does that mean the government, through the minister, gets to choose which provinces or territories this might refer to and only the ones they want to report on?
4:05 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Environmental Protection Branch, Department of the Environment
You're asking a legal question. I can say, in a general sense, that this does provide some discretion to the minister to determine which co-operative measures are key. I don't think it would allow the minister to ignore measures with some provinces and to privilege others. The federal government, as you likely know, does have countless measures, some incredibly small with respect to incredibly minor details.