Evidence of meeting #39 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chair.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Émilie Thivierge  Legislative Clerk
Vincent Ngan  Director General, Horizontal Policy, Engagement and Coordination, Department of the Environment
John Moffet  Assistant Deputy Minister, Environmental Protection Branch, Department of the Environment
Clerk of the Committee  Ms. Angela Crandall
Samuel Millar  Director General, Corporate Finance, Natural Resources and Environment, Economic Development and Corporate Finance, Department of Finance

7:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

Ms. Pauzé, you have the amendment in front of you. I believe we all have the amendment in front of us in both official languages. Mr. Bittle is simply explaining certain things.

Mr. Bittle, you may continue, more slowly if possible.

7:10 p.m.

Liberal

Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'll just pick up from where I left off, that “subsection 7(3)” is removed from clause 27, because it changed in the course of our review. Originally, it was referred in the minister's authority to extend the time limit on setting the 2030 target. It was then replaced by government amendment G- 3 with a new subclause 7(3), which provides that each greenhouse gas emissions target “must be as ambitious as Canada's most recent nationally determined contribution communicated target under the Paris Agreement.”

Basically, since the Statutory Instruments Act would not apply in this situation, “subsection 7(3)” should be removed in order to clarify, based on amendments we've made before.

7:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

You have the floor, Ms. Pauzé.

Then we will give the floor to Mr. Albas.

7:15 p.m.

Bloc

Monique Pauzé Bloc Repentigny, QC

Mr. Chair, I'd also like to add an amendment, which was just sent to Ms. Crandall. I would like to know—

7:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

Is it a subamendment to Mr. Bittle's amendment?

7:15 p.m.

Bloc

Monique Pauzé Bloc Repentigny, QC

No, it isn't.

7:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

First we will finish debating Mr. Bittle's amendment.

7:15 p.m.

Bloc

Monique Pauzé Bloc Repentigny, QC

All right, Mr. Chair.

7:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

Mr. Albas.

7:15 p.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC

Mr. Chair, this just shows that this process, as I've said, has been compressed. The government, in its hurry to make a deal with the NDP, didn't do its homework, and now is making these last moment Hail Mary-type passes to make sure that the bill is somewhat functional.

This is not a great process. Quite honestly, someone on the government side should be asking questions about why they can't get both sides of the equation to equal.

7:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

That's noted.

(Amendment agreed to: yeas 7; nays 4 [See Minutes of Proceedings])

Madam Pauzé, you have an amendment.

7:15 p.m.

Bloc

Monique Pauzé Bloc Repentigny, QC

Yes, Mr. Chair.

Has everyone received it, Ms. Crandall?

7:15 p.m.

The Clerk

No, Ms. Pauzé.

I'm just getting it ready.

I will send it in a few seconds.

7:15 p.m.

Bloc

Monique Pauzé Bloc Repentigny, QC

Okay.

7:15 p.m.

The Clerk

It has now been sent.

7:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

Ms. Pauzé, I'm told that your amendment does not fall under clause 27, it becomes a new clause, clause 27.1.

7:15 p.m.

Bloc

Monique Pauzé Bloc Repentigny, QC

Exactly. That's how it was written, 27.1, right?

7:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

Yes, but clause 27 hasn't carried yet, Ms. Pauzé.

Do we need to vote on that first, Ms. Thivierge?

7:15 p.m.

Legislative Clerk

Émilie Thivierge

Yes, we need to vote on clause 27.

7:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

All right.

Ms. Pauzé, we will debate your amendment after Ms. May's.

Is it Ms. May's, correct, Ms. Thivierge?

7:15 p.m.

Legislative Clerk

Émilie Thivierge

Yes, that's correct, because the committee received Ms. May's amendment before Ms. Pauzé's.

7:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

Perfect.

May we vote on clause 27 as amended, Madam Clerk?

Mr. Albas, I think your hand is up from before.

7:15 p.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC

Mr. Chair. I'm sorry.

(Clause 27 as amended agreed to on division)

7:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

Now we'll go to PV-35.

Ms. May.

7:20 p.m.

Green

Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC

Mr. Chair, I think committee members will recall that a number of the few witnesses we had spoke to the question of justiciability to make sure that this bill could have some measures that have accountability. Unfortunately, this was paired with my amendment that said the minister must achieve the targets. However, there remain a number of mandatory duties: the minister must prepare targets, must set milestone years and must take into account science.

Subclauses 7(1), 7(2) and 7(4), clause 8 and subclauses 9(1) and 9(2) include mandatory duties that could engage an application for judicial review. That's why I'm proposing clause 27.1, which was supported by, I think, West Coast Environmental Law and by a number of other organizations. It provides some guidance that this legislation anticipates judicial review of ministerial obligations, and says that where someone could seek judicial review within the Federal Court and relief, it's available under subsections 18(1) and 18.1(3) of the Federal Courts Act.

I hope members will find that this amendment deserves support so it can become part of Bill C-12.

(Amendment negatived: nays 5; yeas 2)