Environment Committee on Oct. 28th, 2022

[Joanne Thompson, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

Ms. Upton, if I could go back to a comment that you made in your opening remarks around Parks Canada's duty to consult, what more is required from Parks Canada in order to discharge the Crown's duty to consult?

[Darlene Upton]

The national urban parks program has three goals. One is for the conservation, to protect important ecological areas in Canada. There is a lot of biodiversity in southern Canada in these urban areas, so that is very important.

The second one is to connect Canadians to nature and bring nature to where Canadians live. Eighty-two per cent of Canadians are urban.

Our third goal is to support reconciliation, and that will be defined by our partners. We have a partnership committee. We have our partners at the table now, and we are starting to work through the process to understand what their vision for reconciliation could be in this context. It could be co-management. It could be ceremonial space. It could be opportunities for businesses. It could be opportunities to share their culture with the public. For us to meaningfully consult, we require the time to have those conversations to understand that vision and for those decisions to be made co-operatively.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you. We'll have to stop there.

Madame Pauzé is next.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Thank you very much, Chair.

Like my colleague Gérard Deltell, I would like to congratulate you for the quality of your French.

Parks Canada is focusing on the importance of ecological connectivity since roads will be crossing through the park. This speaks to me because the Montreal region has already had to deal with this problem. Perhaps your expertise will help me to understand what happened in my region.

How can we improve ecological connectivity between the parcels that are separated by roads?

[Andrew Campbell]

Parks Canada is a global expert in this area because we often use overpasses and underpasses to create connectivity.

Normally we have access to studies on the most used nature trails. We have to use two types of structure to ensure connectivity. One of the fundamental purposes of our mandate is to facilitate this movement.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Campbell.

My last question is the following: what are the advantages of having a national park rather than a provincial or municipal park?

We would be more inclined to have a provincial or municipal park over a federal park. I am sure you are not surprised to hear that.

[Darlene Upton]

In my opinion, there are several advantages to that.

Canada is very proud of Parks Canada. We have the numbers to prove the economic benefits for our parks.

I think our urban park systems add a lot to the local economy, while protecting biodiversity, which is very important. Often urban park mandates have one or two objectives. The three objectives of national parks are the following: protection, connection and reconciliation. It is a bit different from urban parks and other types of parks.

[Andrew Campbell]

We have heard an indigenous partner mention several times that it is very important to have a nation to nation partnership. That relationship is at the foundation of every park that has been created over the past 20 years.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Your responses bring another question to mind.

If I understood correctly, the bill contains new elements. If those are adopted, can that snowball and be used for other provincial parks, in Quebec for instance? Could certain arguments be made to have this adopted in Quebec as well?

[Andrew Campbell]

In some cases in Quebec, such as for the creation of the Saguenay-St. Lawrence Marine Park, for example, we established a structure for enacting mirror legislation by the province and Canada. In those cases, this will create a very close partnership, including with indigenous communities. The small villages throughout this region will also have partners.

However, this type of structure is from another time and special legislation was required to do this.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Chair, I will cede the rest of my time to Mr. Masse.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Thank you to my colleague. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you to our witnesses for being here, and for your wonderful work across Canada and in our area as well.

I want to assure you, just so you know, after hearing that you weren't consulted on the bill, that it's not the normal process to formally go to a department to do that. We use the Library of Parliament and its lawyers, who are experts. I can assure you that I did talk to many Parks Canada staff, some in Windsor and some in other places, who gave me a lot of advice, especially in learning about the ecological hot spot that we have here. That's actually what caused us to bring the bill to the Library of Parliament. It wasn't out of spite that we didn't contact management or whatever. We talked to many Parks Canada staff, including those in Point Pelee and other areas, to get their professional opinions.

I also want to assure you regarding the bill.... You were working on some type of a plan, and I understand your plan is still a draft plan right now. Is that correct? Is the plan that's on your website still a draft plan?

[Darlene Upton]

That's correct. We're consulting on it now.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Okay. You have a draft plan right now.

Would you not agree, though, that before this bill there was a large movement in the Windsor-Essex county area to have a national urban park even before your efforts?

[Darlene Upton]

Yes, of course, and we do commend all the work you have done. We share the same goal. This is a different process, and ultimately we will implement the direction of the government.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

However, you mentioned in your last statement that in your process you might actually end up with legislation, so we would have to then put this in hiatus for a long time.

I guess what I want to make sure is clear is that none of this takes place until the Prime Minister acts and the deal is finished and done. There is lots of time to do some of these things that need to be done in the time being, because you might end up with legislation, just as I have right here. Is that correct? You said that earlier.

[Darlene Upton]

We would be looking at.... The bill proposes to establish this park under the Canada National Parks Act. Our consideration of legislation may be specific national urban parks legislation. That's the difference.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Yes, but in the meantime, we have over 200.... You didn't mention the species at risk there. You were talking about other parks. In this park here, this one only proposes public lands that are actually parks themselves in its geography, except for the only federal land, which is unprotected right now. Did you secure the protection of the Ojibway Shores land? Is Ojibway Shores permanently protected now?

[Darlene Upton]

We've signed an MOU. We hope to have that permanently protected, probably in the spring of 2023. We're working through the deal for that right now.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

That's been several years in the making. That has 200 endangered species on it. Are you saying that an MOU is binding and will happen no matter what?

[Darlene Upton]

That is the intention, yes.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

You're saying that is the intention, so the answer is no, then.

With the MOU, we're guaranteed, no matter what, flat-out right now, that we're going to protect Ojibway Shores. Is that correct?

[Darlene Upton]

That commitment has been made, yes.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

That's a commitment, so it's guaranteed. Are you saying it's guaranteed?

[Darlene Upton]

We are in the process.... There are some land swaps that have to occur to make that happen. We are on track. We are hoping to have that completed and that land protected by March of 2023. That's what we're targeting.