Evidence of meeting #2 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chairman.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:40 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
It was given proper notice, according to the clerk, but not circulated because he had to get it translated. It wasn't submitted translated, but that's not necessary.
11:40 a.m.
Conservative
11:40 a.m.
Conservative
Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON
Mr. Chair, I have a point of order. I was in my office all morning this morning, after one sleep, and not one e-mail on it. So I have four motions, not five. I would like a ruling on whether that fifth one is out of order for today. I don't mind it as a notice of motion for the next meeting, but there's no way we should be dealing with it, not seeing it, at a quarter to twelve.
11:40 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
Just a moment. Mr. Wallace, what you've done is basically, on a point of order, made a motion that we rule it out of order. I think I have another matter, an overriding matter, that will make this a little bit moot.
11:40 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
Colleagues, you are all familiar with the mandate of the committee. It's in the Standing Orders, page 84 of the Standing Orders, under paragraph 108(3)(h). You also know that at the beginning of the mandate of committees, there is a catch-all phrase under paragraph 108(2)(e), which says, with regard to committees: “other matters relating to the mandate, management, organization or operation of the department, as the committee deems fit.” It is referred to as the general powers clause, and it means that the committees basically are the masters of what they do. However, at the beginning of 108(2), there are four exceptions: (3)(a), which is the Procedure and House Affairs Committee; 3(f), which is official languages; (3)(h), which is our committee; and (4), which I believe is standing joint committees, which is the Library of Parliament.
Under our mandate, you will note, under 108(3)(h), subparagraphs (i), (ii), (iii), (iv), and (v) all relate to work pursuant to reports from the commissioners or references from the House. The motions before us do not fall under the mandate with regard to those items.
The only item under which we have some latitude is with regard to subparagraph 108(3)(h)(vi), and it reads, “proposing, promoting, monitoring and assessing of initiatives which relate to”--blah, blah, blah--“ethical standards relating to public office holders”.
Yesterday I was advised that there have been questions raised about the admissibility of these motions under the mandate of the committee. I also wanted to confer with the...right now we don't have a principal clerk, but we have an acting principal clerk of committees who is responsible for all of them. I wanted to ask for an assessment and advice. There is some ambiguity. Their suggestion and advice to me, as the chair, was to come to the committee and ask for the sponsors of those motions for which notice has been given to put on the record their arguments as to the admissibility of the motions pursuant to the mandate of this committee under the Standing Orders.
I have spoken to Mr. Martin, Madam Lavallée, and Mr. Hubbard, since those are the three items that have come into question by the principal clerk of the committees. Mr. Hiebert's motion clearly is in order.
At this time, I am going to accept the advice and recommendation of the acting principal clerk of committees and our clerk and ask each of the members, as I've given them previous notice, to put on record their statement with regard to the admissibility of their motion under the mandate, specifically subparagraph 108(3)(h)(vi).
I'll begin in order of submission.
Mr. Martin.
11:45 a.m.
NDP
11:45 a.m.
Liberal
11:45 a.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Well, Mr. Chairman, I have the floor, and I would like to move the motion that I submitted on November--
11:45 a.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Mr. Chairman, you don't get to dictate the order of these meetings. You've already taken an hour that we didn't really want to spend on your choice of study. We've been waiting patiently to put our motions forward.
11:50 a.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
I don't mind giving my rationale in the context of the motion. I'd like to move--
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
I would appreciate it if you would give your argument with regard to the admissibility.
11:50 a.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
I will move the motion and I will speak to my motion, and that will include the admissibility.
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
No. Mr. Martin, the question of admissibility has come up. That has to be resolved prior to the motion being eligible to be moved. I'm not going to consider the motion to be moved.
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
Well, sure, because I will not be able to allow it to be moved if it's going to be out of order.
11:50 a.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
In the context of arguing why I believe this committee should undertake this study, I will be arguing admissibility and why I believe it's within the mandate and jurisdiction--
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
As I explained to you, Mr. Martin, the acting principal clerk gave the advice that he needs to hear the subtleties of how we get this under the mandate, and the advice he gave me was to ask the movers to have an opportunity to at least make their case. Otherwise, they may very well come back and say that the motions are out of order. As a courtesy to the members, I wanted to give them an opportunity to make that case.
11:50 a.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Here's how I see it. I'll move my motion. You either rule it in order or out of order, and we will challenge the chair or not challenge the chair based on your ruling. That's how I see it unfolding.
I'm starting to sense some kind of strategy here to delay and stall the progress of this committee.
11:50 a.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Well, no, not from the government side, for a change.
I'm going to move this motion now. You can rule it out of order or whatever, and then I will challenge the chair based on that ruling. You're not going to keep this motion off the floor any longer.
