Evidence of meeting #27 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was inquiry.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Mary Elizabeth Dawson  Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Denise Benoit  Director, Corporate Management, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Simon Coakeley  Deputy Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON

So the TB has seen it?

4:05 p.m.

Deputy Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner

Simon Coakeley

And the Speaker has.

4:05 p.m.

Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner

Mary Elizabeth Dawson

And the Speaker has, of course.

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON

And the Speaker has.

Okay, so it's gone through that process; it gets printed and it comes to us, and technically we could change it if we made the recommendation to change that, right?

All right. So we're looking at 50 bodies. How many bodies do we have hired right now?

4:05 p.m.

Director, Corporate Management, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner

Denise Benoit

There were 45 as of March 31.

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON

So the additional five is not a huge amount.

And I agree, I don't mind spending more money if we have beefed up the ethics side.

My final question--and I might come back--is this. Are you strictly for the House and for senior bureaucrats, or whatever, but not for the Senate? Is that correct?

4:10 p.m.

Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON

I know you've only been there nine months, but is there an efficiency to having it all under one roof, other than having two ethics commissioners?

4:10 p.m.

Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner

Mary Elizabeth Dawson

Do you mean for the Senate and the House?

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON

Right.

Could you give that some thought before you come to see us the next time?

4:10 p.m.

Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner

Mary Elizabeth Dawson

Yes. I think there could be an efficiency there.

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON

Thank you very much.

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo

We'll go to Mr. Thibault, please.

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

Robert Thibault Liberal West Nova, NS

To help, Mr. Wallace, if you see supplementary (A)s and (B)s at committees, I don't think you have to point to the bureaucrats for that. I think you have to look at the ministers and cabinet, because generally their biggest programs have been added, or budgetary changes....

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON

That still has to be justified, though, Mr. Thibault.

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

Robert Thibault Liberal West Nova, NS

Absolutely.

In your field of action, what's the definition of public office holder? Is a public office holder different from an MP, or does it include MP?

4:10 p.m.

Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner

Mary Elizabeth Dawson

Public office holder has a big, long definition--it's about two-thirds of a page long--but fundamentally, it includes the ministers and ministers of state or parliamentary secretaries. Those people are also under the MP code, so they're double-dosed.

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

Robert Thibault Liberal West Nova, NS

So you would be covering public office holders and MPs.

4:10 p.m.

Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner

Mary Elizabeth Dawson

Yes, but the public office holders are a huge group compared to the MPs.

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

Robert Thibault Liberal West Nova, NS

That's what I needed. There's a distinction in your act and in the code between MPs and public office holders.

4:10 p.m.

Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner

Mary Elizabeth Dawson

Yes, but some are both.

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

Robert Thibault Liberal West Nova, NS

Yes, and the same code applies. But there's a distinction between them.

4:10 p.m.

Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner

Mary Elizabeth Dawson

Definitely. In fact, one is a piece of legislation and one is a code applied to the different groups.

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

Robert Thibault Liberal West Nova, NS

I was looking at your process for doing your budget. I think Mike covered a lot of it.

You're an officer of Parliament. It means you don't answer to anybody but Parliament.

4:10 p.m.

Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner