Evidence of meeting #149 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was year.
A video is available from Parliament.
3:45 p.m.
Information Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
I'm really hoping that Bill C-58 will be passed, yes, before....
3:45 p.m.
Conservative
Peter Kent Conservative Thornhill, ON
Okay. Thanks.
Coming now to the better delivery of services across departments and agencies, could you give us your best performers in the 15 months since you took office and the worst performers in terms of improvements and responsiveness?
3:45 p.m.
Information Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
Well, the....
3:45 p.m.
Conservative
Peter Kent Conservative Thornhill, ON
There must be a worst performer. I suspect we know which it is.
3:45 p.m.
Information Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
The problem is that it's difficult to talk about this. I can only report in my annual report. In terms of numbers, we have issues with some institutions every year. The RCMP is having a really hard time getting resources. IRCC is doing very well. It gets 55,000 requests a year, and they're pretty good, actually, in responding to those requests. We had good collaboration this year with Canada Post. We had old files with them, and we were able to find strategies to close them and to get the information to the requesters.
3:45 p.m.
Conservative
Peter Kent Conservative Thornhill, ON
A large part of the RCMP's backlog was that many of the requests were actually made by force members trying to get their own personal data. Has that contradiction of...?
3:45 p.m.
Information Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
I'm told that's one issue. They were asking their own members to go through the access requests to obtain their personal information. That has been fixed.
3:45 p.m.
Conservative
Peter Kent Conservative Thornhill, ON
Okay.
I'm sure that you're aware of the Global Television access to information request to the RCMP regarding the Prime Minister's illegal vacation, and the RCMP response two years later. Is that a case you would flag and investigate?
3:45 p.m.
Information Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
I can't comment on whether or not we had a complaint on this issue, but I can tell you that anything we see in the news, we follow. If there's a reason to start a systemic investigation, we think about it.
3:45 p.m.
Conservative
Peter Kent Conservative Thornhill, ON
Is it fair to say that across departments, across agencies, privacy is often an excuse offered to justify delays where there may be sensitivities or reasons to not respond promptly?
3:45 p.m.
Information Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
By privacy, do you mean section 19, personal information?
3:45 p.m.
Information Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
This is the most used exemption of all the requests we see—40% of our complaints deal with section 19, personal information.
3:45 p.m.
Conservative
Peter Kent Conservative Thornhill, ON
Do you think that the staff at these departments and agencies need to be better informed as to what the limits of using that exemption might be?
3:45 p.m.
Information Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
One of my priorities this year is to issue more guidance and positions. When we find examples where the section has not been used appropriately, we are going to start publishing more of those decisions. Hopefully, Bill C-58, which will allow me to publish decisions as they are decided instead of waiting for a special report or an annual report, is going to be a big plus. We definitely see some cases where we can help institutions better understand their obligations.
3:50 p.m.
NDP
Cheryl Hardcastle NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
Thank you very much for being here.
Picking up from where my colleague, Mr. Kent, left off in respect of the coaching you're doing, what about the solicitor-client privilege issue with the Department of Justice, section 13? Is that an area you're looking at trying to review, reinforce, or repair? Is that an area you see needs attention, or is that just...?
3:50 p.m.
Information Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
Section 23 is the section on solicitor-client privilege. It's a discretionary exemption. I think some of our most important work has to do with what factors are to be considered when we use discretion and how we review those cases. Often the discretion is well applied, but we have factors that are encouraging access versus other institutions that prefer more privacy or secrecy. On solicitor-client privilege, I can tell you that the case law is not helping us in giving access. The cases that deal with section 23 are unanimous: It's a privilege and it has to be protected.
What we're trying to do is to find lines with the current minister and his staff between what they consider pure solicitor-client privilege versus training manuals versus policies. Sometimes we have legal counsels involved in policy drafting, but these aren't legal opinions. We have a lot of examples. Definitely, these types of examples are the cases I want to use in the future to provide guidance on where my office is positioning itself with respect to those sections.
3:50 p.m.
NDP
Cheryl Hardcastle NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
Okay. Thank you very much for that.
Going back to the issue of the backlog and the need for stable, predictable funding to be able to put forward a game plan, there was some initiative that was taken with the online pilot project. Maybe you can tell us a little about some of the opportunities there or what you learned from it, and the financial impact that it has on your resources.
3:50 p.m.
Information Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
In December 2018, the online complaint form was launched. It's being used. It's a good tool and 85% of our complaints are now being done electronically, which is really helping us do our work. One issue with it is that it's a protected A system, so complainants are unable to upload documents that would be protected B, with personal information. We are working now on enhancing that system so that we don't have to wait for the mail that accompanies the complaint form because what we gain now we are losing in waiting for the information to come by mail or through protected emails.
We're working on the system. We've also taken other steps to improve our system, and I think that's why we did so well this year in closing 2,600 cases. We reduced the size of our teams. We involved legal counsel in files right away. We are collaborating with institutions. When I say that, I know that people are scrinching because I'm investigating them, but we are meeting with the DMs, the ADMs and the leadership of every institution to show them what they are protecting, and it's very impressive to see the reaction of institutions when they are actually notified about what they are trying to protect, or the redaction.
Sometimes, I see that the communication between the ATIP office, the OPI and the leaders is not the same. We have great collaboration at the top and great collaboration at the office. Sometimes it's the middle management that is afraid of letting go of information. We are trying to get them to talk to each other and have the leader really explain their vision of access, and the openness and transparency of their institution.
We're making a lot of progress in that way, meeting those institutions personally and even meeting the executive committees. I've been to many committees, but it's working.
3:55 p.m.
NDP
Cheryl Hardcastle NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
Are there recommendations with that? How are you envisioning the financial impact? Should new dollars be invested in that area? Another area would be the security aspect and the technical security online. What are you doing moving forward?
3:55 p.m.
Information Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
We need to invest in training, staffing and resources. Some of the institutions that I'm talking to have the financial resources, but they can't find anybody. Consultants are very expensive. That's one of the reasons I want permanent funding. I'm hiring consultants on a year-to-year basis, but after March 31, I have to let them go. Their files are not finished. I have to reassign them to new people. I have to start a new contract process and then find new consultants. All the institutions are stealing trained staff from each other. We really need to invest in that area, not just money-wise but resource-wise.
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
Michel Picard Liberal Montarville, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Good afternoon, everyone.
We will try to do something to optimize your requests, to see how we might improve the situation.
First, you talked about a more permanent type of measure to meet your needs. What type of permanent measure were you thinking of? What might a permanent measure look like considering that you are seeing the number of complaints increase every year? In that context, would this permanent measure still fall short of your needs?
