Information & Ethics Committee on May 4th, 2017

[Suzanne Legault]

In the case of the Phoenix pay system, we were warned that there were a lot of access to information requests from employees. Normally we receive the complaints later. This time we were warned that there could be many complaints related to access information requests about the Phoenix pay system.

[Karine Trudel, NDP, Jonquière, QC]

When you are advised that there will be an increase in the number of complaints, does that require an increase in the budget and staff in your organization? At this time, is your current staff able to absorb that increase?

[Suzanne Legault]

The way it works is that the staff that is in place absorbs the increase. Every year there is always an event, an incident or complaints related to a given topic that come to the fore.

For instance, following the railway accident at Lac-Mégantic, there were a lot of complaints related to that event. It was the same thing when there was an issue with listeriosis. In that case, we had a lot of complaints about the Canadian Food Inspection Agency.

As soon as there are events like that that happen in government, there are often access to information requests. We receive the complaints and we do what we can with the resources we have.

[Karine Trudel, NDP, Jonquière, QC]

Thank you.

That's all for me.

[The Chair, Conservative, Blaine Calkins]

Thank you very much.

We'll now go to Mr. Erskine-Smith, please.

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

First, thank you, Commissioner.

I have to say, I share your concerns about the delay with respect to the implementation of, at the very least, phase one.

Assume an imperfect world where we don't have any changes. You have a little over $11 million in funding here. There is not only a backlog, but that backlog will grow with your current state of funding. You state that it's an insufficient amount.

What's a sufficient amount?

[Suzanne Legault]

In terms of a sufficient amount to actually work on the inventory and the incoming complaints, the $3 million we had this past year was as much as we can absorb as an organization right now, because we didn't increase our internal services or our executive cadre. We were able to absorb the additional number of files we went through. That's a good sign.

Our office and the government institutions could not close 5,000 complaints of the OIC in one year. Even if we were to get a lot of additional funding, the system couldn't absorb it. I couldn't go to the Canada Revenue Agency and say, “I'm coming in and we're solving your 400 files all at once.”

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

So there's a substantial increase in requests; I think you said 81% since 2010-11. Have the complaints increased on a pro rata basis?

[Suzanne Legault]

No, it's not pro-rated, actually, so that's a good sign.

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

On that note, there's a significant backlog. You had an additional $3 million in funding on a supplemental basis. How successfully did you tackle the backlog with that additional funding? I know there are 2,844 files outstanding, but how successful were you?

[Suzanne Legault]

I think we were very successful. I can show you. We made a small, simple graph. Michael has copies of it; we could distribute it to the committee. It shows for each year we had in the backlog how many files we closed for each year. Of the files from previous years, we closed almost 1,400 cases. Those were old cases out of the backlog. That number was pretty significant.

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

If you were to receive the additional supplemental funding this year, would you foresee tackling the new year's crop of complaints and maybe cutting that 2,800 in half? Would that be the idea?

[Suzanne Legault]

If we got the same amount of ongoing funding for next year, we would probably reduce it to a fairly small number for another year.

[Layla Michaud]

It would reduce by 800.

[Suzanne Legault]

—by 800 per year.

We get about 2,100 new files now, for the last few years, and we have 2,800 in the backlog. We can tackle about 800 or 900 more overall in the system.

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

So you're still looking at a number of years at $15 million before you complete the backlog. From there, what's a sustainable level of funding?

[Suzanne Legault]

I think the sustainable level of funding is about $15 million. It's about that. I noticed your asking my colleague what comparatives have been looked at. The Ontario office, which is a provincial office that doesn't have the same kinds of files that we do, has a budget of about $15 million.

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

So the provincial office that deals ultimately with a smaller population has more money than you have.

[Suzanne Legault]

Yes. They have order making power and are responsible for privacy as well, so they have a joint office. They don't, however, have the national security files and don't have the Canada Revenue Agency files. They therefore have different levels of complexity.

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

What about comparable offices? Do you look just domestically, or do you look internationally as well?

[Suzanne Legault]

I tend to look domestically, because, first of all, we're the only jurisdiction with split mandates at the federal level, and we don't all have the same legislation. It's difficult to compare my office, which has recommendation power, with an order making power model like the U.K.'s, and so comparatives are difficult. It's easier to do it working from the number of complaints and seeing how many efficiencies you can build in; then at some point it's just a numbers game in terms of the number of files.

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

On that point about efficiencies, you mentioned a couple. You mentioned IT efficiencies, your grouping strategy, and Canada Post as an example. Are those strategies sufficient?

I'll put it in a different way. With the efficiencies you're finding, are you still going to need the $11.2 million of supplemental funding regardless of these efficiencies?

[Suzanne Legault]

Yes. We've been on a continuous cycle of improvement, certainly for as long as I've been there. Just to give you a sense, when I became commissioner we had just gotten the Internet in the office, and that was 2009-10. I was the one, as assistant commissioner, who made that come into the office. The Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada has come an extremely long way in the last eight years. In terms of efficiencies, now we're looking at software to go through our 10,000-page records so that we can do word searches and such.

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

On that point, to what extent would proactive disclosure and, where individuals make access to information requests and the information is provided to them, to what extent would providing that information in an easily accessible way online resolve some of the backlog in complaints and in requests?

[Suzanne Legault]

We have a few complaints about the records not being provided in the appropriate format, but it's not a large percentage. It would be fewer than five or 10 a year.