Evidence of meeting #69 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cbsa.
A recording is available from Parliament.
3:45 p.m.
Conservative
Jacques Gourde Conservative Lévis—Lotbinière, QC
Are there people who have actually filed a complaint? This is access to privacy, after all. We keep everything on our cellphones these days. It's so personal. Have there been any complaints?
In general, what are Canadians supposed to do in such a situation, when they feel wronged?
3:45 p.m.
Vice-President, Programs Branch, Canada Border Services Agency
I know the Office of the Privacy Commissioner has received complaints. I could ask my colleague Mr. Mundie to respond.
3:45 p.m.
Robert Mundie Acting Vice-President, Corporate Affairs Branch, Canada Border Services Agency
In the past year there have been three complaints that have come from the Office of the Privacy Commissioner, and we're in the process of co-operating with those investigations. They haven't yet concluded.
3:45 p.m.
Conservative
Jacques Gourde Conservative Lévis—Lotbinière, QC
Ms. Sabourin, do you have anything to say about the issue?
3:45 p.m.
Natalie Sabourin Manager , Information Management, Privacy and ATIP, Canadian Air Transport Security Authority
Yes. I just want to add that, in the last year, we have only received one complaint from the Office of the Commissioner related to personal information.
3:45 p.m.
Conservative
Jacques Gourde Conservative Lévis—Lotbinière, QC
If there are not many complaints, it means that people understand the importance of the search.
However, do your mechanisms have parameters to ensure that you do not take inspections too far in certain circumstances, or when you search someone, do you search everything fully, even Facebook and the bank accounts?
3:45 p.m.
Vice-President, Corporate Services and Corporate Secretary, Canadian Air Transport Security Authority
Personal devices, we don't search those at all. What we're looking for is a security threat. When you are going through the checkpoint, personal information on a personal device is not relevant, so we don't search for that.
3:50 p.m.
Vice-President, Programs Branch, Canada Border Services Agency
If I may, I'll provide a clarification.
You referred to the fact that we keep everything on our cellphones, such as our bank account information. With respect to the CBSA, as I explained in my opening remarks, we ask for the password to unlock the phone, but we put it in airplane mode. So there is no data transmission. We do not have access to people's bank accounts or other information like that; we have access to the information stored on the phone. This means that, when we search a cellphone, we do not have access to the information that people use for their bank accounts, such as a password or a bank card number. That is not part of the sort of examination that the agency conducts.
3:50 p.m.
Conservative
Jacques Gourde Conservative Lévis—Lotbinière, QC
You're talking about a cursory examination, from which it is possible to conclude that everything is fine. However, if a warning light goes off in the officer's head and he has a reasonable doubt to believe that he is dealing with a terrorist, is there a process in place enabling the officer to further search the person's cellphone, or is that the responsibility of another organization?
3:50 p.m.
Vice-President, Programs Branch, Canada Border Services Agency
Our officers do not operate on the basis of suspicion alone. They have to identify offences. If we had suspicions, we could document them, but we would not go any further in searching a telephone. We would not ask the person to activate the WiFi so that we could check other things. This information is usually obtained after an appearance in court and after a warrant is issued by a judge.
With respect to the CBSA's activities, as I mentioned, we only check what is stored on the device, without exploring any link to any network or to documents that would be stored somewhere other than on the phone. It is important to say this to the members of the committee, but also to Canadians.
3:50 p.m.
Conservative
Jacques Gourde Conservative Lévis—Lotbinière, QC
Do you feel that the number of electronic device searches you have conducted has really been worthwhile? Has something come up one time out of 1,000? Is it really worth continuing the exercise?
3:50 p.m.
Vice-President, Programs Branch, Canada Border Services Agency
If the agency believed that such examinations were not worthwhile, we would stop doing them. Unfortunately, we find child pornography and propaganda material on phones. In addition, in the case of people who said that they have not acquired anything on their trips, we find receipts on their phones that show otherwise. That examination is valid.
As I mentioned, we only do it for the purposes of the Customs Act. It is important to stress this. I would not say it is used as a last resort, but the fact is that a traveller's cellphone is not the first place we search. We start by asking questions and searching the luggage. Then, if something suggests an offence under the law, we can go so far as to search the telephone. We do not do it systematically. Unfortunately, I cannot give you statistics on that, but it is a very low percentage.
3:50 p.m.
NDP
Karine Trudel NDP Jonquière, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you very much for your presentation.
This summer, I was talking to a friend of mine and he told me how nervous he gets when he has to go through a customs inspection. I told him that he should not, if he has nothing to feel guilty about. He is nervous by nature and, for him, it is all very official. I keep thinking about him today. So I will be smiling as I ask you questions about a very serious subject.
We have been talking a great deal about cellphone searches. Even I keep my plane tickets on my cellphone. Our phones are used for a bunch of things.
When you decide that a search like that is needed, for how long do you keep the personal information you have collected?
3:55 p.m.
Vice-President, Programs Branch, Canada Border Services Agency
If the information shows that an offence has been committed, there are a number of things that can be done. The goods may be seized. In case of possession of child pornography, we can arrest the person. The information remains in a file with the agency.
I'm turning to my colleague.
I believe it's seven years if we....
I can provide you with the details. The information is retained for a number of years.
When we check a device that shows no violations of the law, we do not store any data. We simply give the device back to the traveller.
3:55 p.m.
NDP
Karine Trudel NDP Jonquière, QC
In your speech, you said that, depending on the situation, you had to share information with other agencies, including the police. You mentioned Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada.
3:55 p.m.
Vice-President, Programs Branch, Canada Border Services Agency
It's not necessarily the information collected from a cellphone. It is information that is collected routinely, basically the information on page 2 of your passport. It is routinely sent to our colleagues at Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada. Some data are also shared with Statistics Canada for statistical purposes.
Your question was about the information that we retrieve from a cellular device. In the case of an active investigation, information may be forwarded to our colleagues at the RCMP and the Canadian Security Intelligence Service for further investigation.
3:55 p.m.
NDP
Karine Trudel NDP Jonquière, QC
I would like to know what data are being shared with Statistics Canada. Is it the number of passengers, for example?
3:55 p.m.
Vice-President, Programs Branch, Canada Border Services Agency
Yes, it may be the number of passengers or whether they are returning residents or visitors. I'm answering from memory, but let's say it's usually very general information.
3:55 p.m.
Vice-President, Programs Branch, Canada Border Services Agency
That's what allows Statistics Canada to regularly publish the number of foreign visitors to Canada.
3:55 p.m.
NDP
Karine Trudel NDP Jonquière, QC
I'd like to go back to something else I read in your document. By the way, thank you very much for providing us with your written presentation. You say that, in the event of any questions or discrepancies, individuals can request that the CBSA amend the information.
In which cases can requests be made to amend information? Can someone do it because they felt wronged because you asked to check their cellphone?
3:55 p.m.
Vice-President, Programs Branch, Canada Border Services Agency
In my opening remarks, it is important to distinguish between cellphones, which are one segment of a multitude of activities, and our information sharing. Mr. Mundie can give you an example, but I think we have to distinguish between the two. Not everything is about cellphones.
3:55 p.m.
Acting Vice-President, Corporate Affairs Branch, Canada Border Services Agency
Generally speaking, if you have a dispute from an experience you've had at the border, we have a recourse directorate within the corporate affairs branch that will receive a complaint or a compliment, and it will be appropriately handled through the organization and you'll get a response. You can also go through your member of Parliament or write the minister. There are other ways of bringing this to our attention.
