Information & Ethics Committee on Oct. 23rd, 2017

[Peter Di Gangi]

What my colleague said is true: you expect that for some things, you're not going to get what you asked for.

One of the concerns is the gratuitous use of exemptions. Advice and recommendations are so broad you could drive a truck through them, and officials do, quite often. We've had solicitor-client privilege invoked for letters that are 100 years old. We've had third-party exemption invoked for materials that are 100 years old.

To me, that's a gratuitous use of exemptions, and the Information Commissioner's office has the expertise to address those issues. We certainly don't expect to get full disclosure all the time.

[Michel Picard, Liberal, Montarville, QC]

I would like to go back to the position you adopted as the representative of first nations interests.

Aside from certain issues, such as who is deemed to belong to a band, to take a very simple example, the Canadian population in general is not involved here in issues that affect first nations specifically.

Are there specific problems regarding your requests on behalf of first nations? Aside from the files concerning a group in particular, is the issue you raised concerning your general requests related to the Canadian population as a whole?

[Peter Di Gangi]

Yes, absolutely, and we tried to outline those in our briefs, the one in June 2016 as well as the one that we did this October.

There are some very specific issues related to the nature and scope of the right that indigenous peoples have to government data that relates to them: membership data, treaty annuity pay lists, material related to claims. Those are very precise and specific to first nations.

We've tried to identify them. I don't think there would be time for me to do it in the short period of time I have to answer, but certainly we've identified them in our briefs and we'd welcome the opportunity to answer more questions in more detail if committee members would like.

[Michel Picard, Liberal, Montarville, QC]

Personally, I don't think I will need to make a request concerning whether someone belongs to a band or not. As far as requests pertaining to ancestral rights, or information concerning first nations specifically, my general requests to the government to access information should be similar to those undertaken by any other group.

Are the first nations so different that the process is not the same? There are general issues, and specific ones related to the nature of the information being sought.

[Peter Di Gangi]

Again, with indigenous people, it's very specific. There are certain rights of access they have. We've been to the Federal Court of Appeal on some of this, and it has pronounced on it. It has been very specific that there's a right of access and that the crown has a duty to disclose. INAC did go some way toward addressing that issue and setting up a system, but it's fallen into disrepair.

We don't see from this bill that it would fix the problem.

[Michel Picard, Liberal, Montarville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Di Gangi.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Zimmer]

Thank you.

Mr. Cullen, I think you wanted to present a motion.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Yes, I will give the committee notice of motion. I know we have to go in camera, and I apologize to our witnesses here. Maybe Ms. Scoffield will be interested in this as well.

I move:

That, pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(h)(vi), the Committee undertake a study of the Conflict of Interest Act and how it relates to public office holders; that the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner be invited to discuss her 2013 recommendations provided in the context of the five-year review of the Act; that the Finance Minister be invited to explain decisions he has made in accordance with the Conflict of Interest Act; and that this study begin as soon as possible.

I'm not seeking to debate the motion today, Chair, obviously because our time is of a limited nature, but I'm sure this is of interest to committee members, given the current discussion in Parliament.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Zimmer]

Thank you, Mr. Cullen.

We're going to suspend and let our guests leave. We'll go in camera and into committee business.

[Proceedings continue in camera]