Evidence of meeting #75 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was c-58.
A video is available from Parliament.
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
Frank Baylis Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
I don't have a perspective. I'm just trying to align what you're saying with what they are saying.
4:35 p.m.
Information Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
What I am saying is that what I consider to be perfectly valid requests under the current regime would now be denied under this regime.
I think you've heard from Peter Di Gangi, and his submission is supported by a number of first nations. I think their concerns with this new section are entirely legitimate, because they don't necessarily know all of these three criteria.
4:40 p.m.
Liberal
Frank Baylis Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
You keep diverting it away from.... I've asked a specific question about Canada Border Services and IRCC. They do the brunt of the work. They say it's useful. Tell me why you don't want to listen to them—not about the others, about them.
4:40 p.m.
Information Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
I am listening to them. In fact, if you really wanted to look at the types of requests they get at CIC and CBSA, that might not be a problem for them because, as they have testified, most of the requests at CIC are really about the status—
4:40 p.m.
Information Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
No. I'm saying that the bulk of the requests in those two institutions deal with very specific matters.
4:40 p.m.
Liberal
Frank Baylis Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
Are you saying that it's not a bad thing for them to have?
4:40 p.m.
Information Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
I think it's a regression for access to information rights generally.
4:40 p.m.
Information Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
I think it's important to recognize that these provisions would not apply only to one department. They apply across the system, to over 250 institutions.
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Bob Zimmer
Time is up. Thank you, Mr. Baylis.
Next up is MP Cullen, for three minutes.
4:40 p.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
I just heard the statement about putting aside the Afghan detainees situation, with which Canada may have violated the Geneva Convention.
It's now looking a bit more worrisome. The testimony we had from the two departments that came earlier raised the spectre of a request coming in that would elicit 10 million pages of documents coming forward. You testified today that the average is dramatically less than that, from those very departments.
I then raise a question over the veracity of the testimony that was given to us, because the spectre of these requests coming in and clogging the wheels of government is not what your experience has been with those specific departments. Is that fair to say?
4:40 p.m.
Information Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
It's fair to say, yes.
The total number of pages provided to Canadians last year, according to government statistics, is a little under seven million.
4:40 p.m.
Information Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
That's the total for all institutions across the system.
4:40 p.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
They said there was one request that would have cost them 10 million pages. Your testimony today, based on government facts—because it's good to have evidence-based decision-making—is that the total requests from all Canadians for all departments in the federal government was seven million?
4:40 p.m.
Information Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
I have the exact number here for last year. It was 6,966,589.
4:40 p.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
While I understand that it's inconvenient for governments sometimes to have to respond to these requests, we see that some requests from government take four years or more to answer.
Is it fair to make the statement, as it has been made by other witnesses, that access to information delayed is access to information denied?
You raised the Duffy-Wallin-Brazeau example that's still going on. It was an access to information request to the Prime Minister's Office that is still being contested back and forth for months—and in some cases now a couple of years—after the incident. The concern was first raised to Canadians three years ago.
You're nodding. I just want to make sure it's on the record as true.
4:40 p.m.
Information Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
Yes, that's true.
4:40 p.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
I want to go back to the question that preoccupies me, and committee members could forgive me.
I represent a constituency in northwest British Columbia with approximately 40% first nations people. Some of the treaties are still unresolved. One took 135 years to resolve. There's a great deal of hope and promise with the new government, because there was this commitment to reconcile—a word that has been so stretched in its application that I'm wondering about its meaning anymore—on specific things like issues around residential schools and the horrors that went on there, and around reconciling land disputes, which are at the heart of enfranchisement for first nations people.
If Bill C-58 were to become law, from your perspective as commissioner, would the ability to reconcile, to resolve, to settle cases, be enhanced or diminished based on the information first nations would be able to pull from the Government of Canada?
4:45 p.m.
Information Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
I'm the Access to Information Commissioner. What I can say is that if Bill C-58 and proposed section 6 remain as they stand, it will be a lot more difficult for first nations to access the information they need to establish land claims and to establish some past events they might have been involved in and that they need to document in order to resolve.
4:45 p.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
That should weigh on all of us as we consider amendments to this bill.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Bob Zimmer
We're going to continue. I assume there are still questions to be asked of the commissioner. We're now into open time, so you need to let Hugues know that you would like to ask a question. We'll keep the questions to five minutes, and we'll time out the clock until that 10 minutes at the end that we need for committee business.
Next up is MP Dubourg.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
Emmanuel Dubourg Liberal Bourassa, QC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
It is now my turn to greet you, Ms. Legault, and the people accompanying you.
I have two quick questions.
The first is about the Conservatives' election platform, where they raised a number of points:
“Give the Information Commissioner the power to order the release of information. Expand the coverage of the Act to all Crown Corporations”, etc., etc.
However, we know that nothing has been done in 10 years.
I would also like to talk about an article published in the Canadian Press, where the following is stated:
“The information commissioner of Canada has found evidence of 'systemic interference' with access to information requests by three Conservative staff members”, etc., etc.
Do you think the amendments you have proposed will make that kind of interference in access to information requests impossible?