Evidence of meeting #24 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was program.
A video is available from Parliament.
3 p.m.
Conservative
3 p.m.
Liberal
Nathaniel Erskine-Smith Liberal Beaches—East York, ON
If it's to be a request of the committee, I would like some clarity as to scope and relevance. What dates are we talking about and in relation to what kinds of interactions? That's just for my own clarity.
3 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Chair, I'll come back with a motion after we've completed the witnesses' testimony. Should it be the will of the committee, we can provide that request to them then.
3 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin
That would be helpful.
Mr. Barrett, we'll return to you for your final questions.
3 p.m.
Founder, WE Charity
There's nothing that we're concerned about. Candidly, we're more confused by the request than anything else.
3 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Mr. Marc Kielburger, last spring you did speak about a phone call with the PMO on April 23, which was the day after the Canada student service grant was announced. That video was published. You later said that it was not, in fact, a member of the Prime Minister's Office with whom you spoke. When asked, you simply said you didn't have the right date.
Why doesn't this sound right?
3 p.m.
Founder, WE Charity
Mr. Barrett, we spoke about that extensively in the last FINA testimony. I misspoke. I apologize. The initial point of contact was with Craig with Rachel Wernick.
3 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
On which date did the—
3 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin
Thank you, Mr. Barrett. Your time is up.
We will now move to Mr. Sorbara.
3 p.m.
Liberal
Francesco Sorbara Liberal Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, everyone, for being here this afternoon.
To the Kielburgers, welcome to the ethics committee. Thank you for availing yourselves. I've been part of the ethics committee and prior to that, I was on the finance committee, where we welcomed you both. I thank you for coming to that.
I've followed along very well the last couple of months on what has gone on and how our government's helped and worked through COVID-19.
In your opening statement today...I understood where you're coming from. There seemed to be a lot of blame that you folks wanted to put on everyone else but yourselves for any responsibility of why you're here and what has transpired. I was rather disappointed. At the same time, you want to throw blame on everyone else and not take responsibility for things that have happened within your control. So be it; that is your right.
This is a parliamentary committee. We are protected by parliamentary privilege. As someone who has spent the last few weeks—and actually the last few years—working on committees and understanding the roles of committees.... We are here to look at many sorts of issues. Committees have powers. They have the power to obtain documents if they need to and the power to summon individuals to appear before a committee. Those powers need to be utilized responsibly, but they also need to be respected, so I thank you for being here today. It maybe took a little arm-twisting, but you're here. I thank you for that.
I want to focus because I want to make sure we're on the same page. Even though some individuals may wish for your organization to be investigated by the RCMP or whichever agency—the Canada Revenue Agency—and they may openly call for that, you do understand that no individual, whether a member of Parliament or not, has that power to dictate to an agency to undertake that. Are we clear on that?
3:05 p.m.
Liberal
Francesco Sorbara Liberal Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON
I just would like you to answer yes or no, please, because my time is limited. Are we clear on that?
3:05 p.m.
Founder, WE Charity
You made a very serious and strong statement, sir. I just want to make it very clear that we willingly agreed to come when the request came from this committee. We were scheduled months ago to be here. It was a week prior when Mr. Angus sent, on member of Parliament letterhead.... Are we clear that this is a a serious issue? When an elected official, a member of Parliament, openly calls...puts it out on Twitter and shares it with the press, that's a very serious matter. As for what the RCMP will do with that, we trust they will take it seriously, sir. Beyond that, it's up to the RCMP.
3:05 p.m.
Liberal
Francesco Sorbara Liberal Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON
I need to make it clear that while we all understand that it is not a member of Parliament's duty to tell—we do not live in a society like that—the RCMP or the Canada Revenue Agency to investigate an entity or an individual. I want to make sure that that's on record. Unlike, say, for example, when the prior government was in power and how they used the hammer of the CRA, if I can use that word, to look at charities, we do not do that and we would not do that, whether it's questioning political activity, audits and so forth.
I need to make sure that you folks understand. You folks are here, having parliamentary privilege, which we all enjoy on this committee. It gives us the ability to say what we think, what we want to say, without any prejudice. I thank you for being here, but please understand that you being here, despite what other members of Parliament say, does not prejudice you to any organization. Is that clear?
3:05 p.m.
Founder, WE Charity
Sir, I appreciate the words. What I would say is that the former assistant deputy minister perhaps has an alternative view on that matter, but I appreciate that.
3:05 p.m.
Liberal
Francesco Sorbara Liberal Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON
I'll ask it in this way. Do you think it is appropriate for politicians to try to direct the police or the CRA to target individuals or organizations?
3:05 p.m.
Liberal
Francesco Sorbara Liberal Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON
Okay, thank you.
I will follow up with a question, changing tangents.
You have provided documents, annotations, agreements and information on WE Charity's operations, finances and programs, as well as responded to presumably hundreds of media questions. Is there anything additional on the Canada student service grant that isn't in the public sphere that you would like to share at this time?
3:05 p.m.
Founder, WE Charity
We're here to answer the questions the committee may have, sir.
3:05 p.m.
Liberal
Francesco Sorbara Liberal Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON
I am trying to stay within the sphere of the motion that we adopted on November 16 towards this study. I am not here as the member of Parliament from my riding to talk about the testimony of Mr. Reed Cowan, to talk about anything referenced in the Bloomberg articles. You folks will need to read those, and you probably already have. You folks will need to take responsibility for what has been written, whether rightly or wrongly, in those and respond to those articles. I, as a member of Parliament, am here to look at our government's programs.
Have WE and you, Marc and Craig, had contracts with the federal government in the past prior to the CSSG?
3:05 p.m.
Liberal
Francesco Sorbara Liberal Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON
How have those contracts been undertaken, and have they been fulfilled?
3:05 p.m.
Founder, WE Charity
They were undertaken as one would suspect. They were done in appropriate manners. They were fulfilled per requests, and the civil service would be the group to direct it to, but based on the good work of the organization, that's why I suspect the civil service approached the organization to ask for its help with the CSSG.
3:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin
Thank you. Your time is up.
We'll now turn to Monsieur Fortin for your first round of questions.
3:10 p.m.
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
My question is for either Craig or Marc Kielburger.
I believe it was Marc Kielburger who said, back in July, that the WE Charity Foundation—the foundation, not the charity—signed the contract with the federal government to limit liability on the recommendation of the charity's lawyers.
Did government officials inquire about that? Did they ask any questions about the entity known as the WE foundation?