Evidence of meeting #24 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was program.
A video is available from Parliament.
4:20 p.m.
Founder, WE Charity
I assumed the government process would work properly.
4:20 p.m.
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
I see.
To your mind, it wasn't really an issue. You didn't think there was a conflict of interest.
4:20 p.m.
Founder, WE Charity
We were very open and very transparent. It is not...appropriate to book someone through a speaking bureau website to come to an event. We didn't do it for the sake of seeking government grants. We did a decade with her because she was a mental health advocate. She raised millions of dollars for us, ironically, as a speaker at these charitable events—
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
Brenda Shanahan Liberal Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC
I'm sorry, that's time for Mr. Fortin.
We now go to Mr. Angus.
I see that the chair has returned.
4:20 p.m.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
Madam Shanahan, thank you so much. Before I begin, I just want to clarify how much time I have. Do I ask you or do I ask the chair?
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
4:20 p.m.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
Thank you.
This is March 15. This is the anniversary of Wesley Cowan's death.
I think we were all pretty moved when we heard Reed Cowan, because you realize that you don't get over a loss like that. That's why memorials are so important. That's why they have to be treated with such sacred trust.
This, then, is also the anniversary of when you dedicated that school to this son, and that trust was broken. I want to ask, how soon after Reed Cowan left was that plaque taken down?
4:20 p.m.
Founder, WE Charity
Mr. Angus, this is the one thing that we do agree with you on, and fully. It should never have happened.
4:20 p.m.
Founder, WE Charity
It was 15 years ago. People are looking at the records. I don't know the answer to that question. We've [Technical difficulty—Editor] our standing committee to find the answer, and we should have that answer, and he is owed that answer. We are looking into that—
4:25 p.m.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
He is owed that answer, because the issue is that you didn't take the plaque down once. You took it down twice. He went back in 2008 and wanted to see the building. We have the TV footage. Your staff did everything they could to keep him from getting to that building, and finally he insisted, because it was his son's school. He went back and it was a different plaque. You had thrown out the first plaque and you put a second plaque up, so then you took that plaque down and put somebody else's plaque up.
To follow up on Mr. Erskine-Smith's comments about staff—your staff—joking about this, we have articles in Bloomberg about this. We've had The Fifth Estate. The fact that you took that plaque down twice shows this wasn't an accident. This was wilful. You sold and you got Mr. Cowan to take his son's death and legacy and build a story across America, and then, when he was gone, you gave that school to someone else.
How do you justify that?
4:25 p.m.
Founder, WE Charity
Sir, firstly, what you describe was not accurate, but here's where I agree with you—
4:25 p.m.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
That was accurate. He has footage of it. We've seen the pictures of the plaque.
I know you have a hundred-and-some things about all the wrong stuff I've said. It's actually quite.... I love it. I'm reposting your gaslighting, but I have the photos of the plaques. You had to go out and buy a cheap knock-off plaque because you threw the first one out. That's two plaques.
These are the allegations that are against you. You need to answer that.
4:25 p.m.
Founder, WE Charity
That's why we are looking into them. I am with you on this. I am not fighting you on this. I agree with you. This is serious. This is why even though it's years ago—
4:25 p.m.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
I spoke to many of your former staff who say that you guys put on a show for donors. It was about selling them on that emotional tag. They talk about these jokes about velcro donor plaques.
It was Mr. Cowan who has asked for a police investigation. I just forwarded his concerns to the RCMP. It was Mr. Cowan who believed he was defrauded. He is a member of your advisory board, for crying out loud. He was a big fundraiser.
For you to say this was a one-off.... We've seen the articles in Bloomberg, as my colleague said. You keep saying there are mistakes. You keep saying things are wrong in The Fifth Estate. It's like everybody...? I know that Charlie Angus is being mean to you, but is everyone else as well?
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin
Mr. Angus, you are out of time, but we will allow for an answer.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
Yes, Mr. Chair. This point of order is to give notice to the committee that at the end of the proceedings the Conservatives will be putting forward a motion to recall the Kielburger brothers unless they provide, before the end of these hearings, the total amount that they and their affiliated organizations have paid the Trudeau family. They have not yet done so.
There will be a motion to that effect. That is notice to the Kielburger brothers and their lawyer that they should get their calculators sharpened so that they can get that answer before the end of these proceedings or they will be back again to testify.
Thank you.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin
We'll allow for a short answer to Mr. Angus's question.
Then we will go to Mr. Barrett.
4:25 p.m.
Founder, WE Charity
I would love to say.... I appreciate the point of order. We will get you the information, and actually I appreciate that you stayed on this. Ironically, I'm with you, Mr. Poilievre, and clearly I say this, you have stayed on the mission of looking at the CSSG, so I appreciate your focus on protecting Canadian taxpayers. I understand—