Evidence of meeting #35 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was year.
A recording is available from Parliament.
2:50 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying of Canada, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
Then we have a team that takes care of outreach and all of the reports that are required by government. We're subject to all the same requirements as any other big department. Really, there are four people who are....
There are two finance people. Then we've allocated one support for IT. We've allocated four for internal services, and everybody else supports the program.
2:55 p.m.
Calgary Rocky Ridge, CPC
All right.
Mr. Chair, do I have any time left, or is that about it?
2:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin
You do have a bit of time left. You have approximately 30 seconds.
2:55 p.m.
Calgary Rocky Ridge, CPC
Okay.
With that, I think I'll merely thank the commissioner for her service to Parliament and leave it at that.
2:55 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying of Canada, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
Thank you.
2:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin
Thank you.
For our final questions this afternoon, Ms. Shanahan, we'll turn to you. If you would like, you can split your time as well.
2:55 p.m.
Liberal
Brenda Shanahan Liberal Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll take it up.
I do thank Madame Bélanger for being here. I remember that when I first became a member of Parliament, it was the lobbying commissioner at the time who was giving us orientation, and it was a little scary.
I believe this is in your recommendations. The idea of trying to allocate a certain portion of the time that somebody spends actually speaking to members of Parliament had something to do with proportionality. Otherwise, it's every person who walks into my office who is potentially a lobbyist, and like Madame Gaudreau, I would feel obliged to.... I mean, I want to know if you're registered or not.
Can you speak to us about that?
2:55 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying of Canada, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
Currently, even if everybody we speak to is a lobbyist, that's okay. They have the requirement to register.
Right now what's happening is that organizations and corporations don't need to register if it's not a significant part of their work. In order to register, they need to calculate whether or not they've spent about 30 hours in a month preparing and meeting with you. For me, whether it's two hours, one hour or 10 minutes, it's the substance of that conversation that matters. That should be in the registry for transparency so that Canadians know who is meeting whom about what. If the threshold is that if you talk to them, you register, the obligation will be on them. It's not that difficult to register. You don't need to calculate whether you spoke to them 10 minutes, 20 minutes, a half-hour. You should take note of whom you met so that if I ever reach out to you to confirm the information, you have it at hand. However, the obligation is on the lobbyists to make sure that they are transparent about the communications that they have with Canadian decision-makers.
2:55 p.m.
Liberal
Brenda Shanahan Liberal Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC
You do mention the requirements and the difference between corporations and organizations. I believe that is in your recommendation 3, and that's what my colleague, Ms. Lattanzio, was curious about.
Can you talk about what your thinking is there?
2:55 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying of Canada, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
Recommendation 3 is making the requirements the same, I believe.
2:55 p.m.
Liberal
Brenda Shanahan Liberal Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC
Yes, it is making the requirements the same between the two.
2:55 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying of Canada, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
I don't always have the order of them perfectly in my mind, but yes.
The problem right now with the registry is that corporations do not have to list employees who lobby less than 20%. In other words, in the registry, an organization has to list everybody who lobbies, but a corporation does not have to list those who lobby less than 20%. What that means, the impact of that, is that those individuals who are not in the registry are not subject to the code of conduct of lobbyists, and that's a problem.
It's not difficult. It's just this: List all of the names of those who lobby on behalf of the corporation and organization. The organizations have to do that. I don't know why corporations don't. That's not a very difficult change to make.
2:55 p.m.
Liberal
Brenda Shanahan Liberal Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC
Okay. That's interesting.
One of your other recommendations—I forget which one it was—talks about the fact that you'd like to have more details about the activities undertaken by each registrant. What are you looking for there?
2:55 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying of Canada, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
What I'd be interested in—and British Columbia has done this—is the monthly communication report. When in the month they say, “We've met with this particular designated public office holder”, it would be interesting to see whether this communication happened during lobby day. Was this during sponsored travel? Was there hospitality offered? Was this during a conference? Was it a meeting? They're details that could be in the monthly communication reports that would enhance transparency.
3 p.m.
Liberal
Brenda Shanahan Liberal Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC
That is important, I think, because that goes to my earlier question about the quality of the interaction. I can see going to a cocktail—if we ever can do that again—and just crossing paths with someone, and the next thing you know it's a thing, so I think there is a distinction there from someone who's presenting you with multiple briefs.
3 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying of Canada, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
If a lobbyist takes the time to lobby you during that event in the evening, they should have an obligation to put in the registry that they lobbied you.
3 p.m.
Liberal
Brenda Shanahan Liberal Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC
Okay. In other words, they weren't just being friendly.
3 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying of Canada, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
I'm sure they were, but....
3 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin
Thank you. Your time has now expired.
Commissioner, thank you for being here. We certainly appreciate you answering our questions. We're thankful for the work that you do and for continuing to report back to us. I thank you on behalf of our committee.
Colleagues, we will vote on the estimates at our next meeting, which is not this week, but in a week. The following Monday is a holiday, so it will be the next Friday before we can come together again, and we will have the Ethics Commissioner with us. Mr. Dion will join us for that meeting on Friday, May 28, at which time I would recommend that we vote on all the estimates, and that will allow us to report back to the House of Commons before the deadline.
Colleagues, if there is nothing further, I will adjourn the meeting.
3 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying of Canada, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
Thank you. Stay safe.
3 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin
Thanks so much, Commissioner. We really appreciate it.
The meeting is adjourned.