Information & Ethics Committee on Oct. 3rd, 2022

[Bezan]

It's no problem.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

My concern is that I don't want us to not do justice to both of the studies we're trying to get done at the same time. I think it would be more efficient for us to get through the ATIP study, then move on to other studies we have on the docket, including this one, Mr. Chair. That would be my take.

Where it says, “as soon as possible” in this motion, my interpretation is that we put aside everything else and get to this, first and foremost. I don't think that's a proper triage of the work that is before this committee.

[The Chair, Conservative, Pat Kelly]

Thank you.

I have Monsieur Villemure and then Mr. Fergus.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I have heard various arguments today. Two hours have passed and we have not even got to the first item. That is unfortunate.

I would like to reassure my colleague, Mr. Fergus, that the witnesses suggested have been informed.

Everyone agrees that this is an important and worthwhile subject. We have talked about the length of the study. Nonetheless, in order to begin considering an important matter, we must simply begin. We have talked a lot about what people will think of us if we take six meetings for this. What will they think of us if we do nothing today though? I am a bit concerned about that.

I would like to see some good will from my colleagues opposite so we can finally move forward.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Pat Kelly]

Mr. Fergus.

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

I have two questions, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to you and to Mr. Villemure for your clarifications.

My two questions are for you, Mr. Villemure.

First, you said that the witnesses who will be invited have already been informed. Who informed them? Can you tell us that? The committee has not had the time to talk about it so I would like to know who spoke on my behalf.

Secondly, I want to pick up on your clarification, Mr. Chair. You said “as soon as possible” and indicated that does not mean that we will hear from the witnesses within 48 hours. You said you would take the time to do things properly. That raises another question, however. To your mind, if this amendment is defeated, what would the deadline be for submitting the list of witnesses we want to invite to you and the clerk?

I expect we will do that as a committee and not on an individual basis.

Those are my two questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Pat Kelly]

Before I carry on with the speaking list, I'm going to just weigh in again, since you're putting some of these points straight to me.

It had been my contention that, yes, “as soon as possible” meant that Wednesday would not have been possible, so that was my thought on that upon seeing the motion. It's why the notice went up today for Wednesday.

In the past, when a motion like this was adopted, I have asked parties immediately to supply witnesses. I always encourage parties or members to supply their witnesses to the analysts as soon as they can, and I tell them that the submission of witnesses need never be final. It's better to inform the analysts immediately if you know certain witnesses you wish to invite, and if you find another witness or discover a witness who's available to you, you can always follow up with the analysts. It has always been my practice to encourage the supplying of witness names as soon as possible, so that would be within a few days of the adoption of this motion, should it be adopted.

I think I covered your questions. I know that part of your intervention put questions to Monsieur Villemure, but I'm going to take my speakers in the order they are in on the list, and I'm going to take interventions only from those who wish to get on the list.

I have Ms. Saks next, if you've finished.

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

I have finished.

[The Chair, Conservative, Pat Kelly]

Okay, then, we will go to Ms. Saks, and we'll see after that if we have anybody else who wishes to speak.

Go ahead, Ms. Saks.

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Fergus actually jumped ahead and clarified the question that I had—under the chair's interpretation, when witnesses would be due—and I appreciate the clarification that there is an openness to the ongoing submission of witnesses.

I want to defer to Monsieur Villemure, just for a moment. Respectfully, we sat here last week in camera on a motion as well, and there has certainly been ceding of time. I've always been happy to work across the floor with colleagues to make sure we get important issues tabled, and colleagues know that perfectly well.

Respect works both ways, and the way this was presented and the opportunity to work respectfully on this sadly did not feel.... Certainly, I did not feel that it was put forward in my own collaborative efforts across the way. It's unfortunate that we've had to go through so many machinations of clarification today to ensure that the heart of the matter, as we proceed with this study, is clear—and the timeline, frankly, because there is other work on the docket that I would like to see accomplished.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Pat Kelly]

Thank you.

Are there any others who wish to speak to the amendment?

Go ahead, Mr. Fergus.

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

I would like a minor clarification from Mr. Villemure.

He has this in front of him. I don't think it will take long.

[The Chair, Conservative, Pat Kelly]

I've given him the opportunity, as with all members.

Mr. Villemure.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

I would like to answer my esteemed colleague.

It is in fact the clerk's privilege to invite people. It is not René Villemure who invites a witness. On the other hand, before putting a name on the list, I show the courtesy of asking people if they would be willing to appear. In this case, they stated that they would be willing to join us, that is all. It is the clerk though who would make the invitation once the witness list is submitted to her.

[The Chair, Conservative, Pat Kelly]

With that, we're on the amendment.

Are there any opposed to the amendment?

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

What was the amendment?

Can you read it again?

[The Chair, Conservative, Pat Kelly]

I will ask the clerk to read the amendment.

[The Clerk of the Committee, Ms. Nancy Vohl]

The amendment is to delete the words “as soon as possible”.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I oppose that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Pat Kelly]

I hear a member opposed.

We'll go to a vote on the amendment.

It is tied, and I vote to oppose the amendment.

(Amendment negatived: nays 6; yeas 5 [See Minutes of Proceedings])

We are back on the main motion.

Are there any speakers to the main motion?

Go ahead, Ms. Khalid.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Thanks, Chair. I will say this really quickly. I understand that we're running out of time.

All of the points I raised today, and all of my little amendments were conversations that we could have had, had you guys felt that you could just talk to me. You could pick up the phone; you all have my number. We sit here together for hours and hours. We could have had a discussion about the substance of this. I am not opposed to our studying this. I raised my issues with you. We could have done it together. We could have bypassed all of this if we had been just a little more collaborative.

Again, I encourage members to work together, and in good faith. I have that good faith, and I hope that you do, too.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Pat Kelly]

Are there any others who would like to speak to the main motion?

Go ahead, Mr. Fergus

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

I want to support what Ms. Khalid said. I hope I'm not revealing anything from our in camera meeting; I'm pretty certain these were all in public. I think this is the third time she's raised this issue.

Folks, let's work together.

We can work together. We have shown that several times throughout this session. We have a good relationship. So I think it is possible.

Please take the time to communicate with us, with Ms. Khalid on our side, before tabling such a motion.

[The Chair, Conservative, Pat Kelly]

Is anyone here opposed to the main motion?

I will ask for a vote on the main motion.

It is tied, and I vote in favour.

(Motion agreed to: yeas 6; nays 5 [See Minutes of Proceedings])

The meeting is adjourned.