Subcommittee of the Standing Committee on Finance on Bill C-38 Committee on May 28th, 2012

[Randy Kamp, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC]

Do you not agree that the prohibition to cause serious harm, which is defined as death or permanent alteration of habitat to fisheries—commercial, recreational, and aboriginal fisheries—and those fish that support them, is a broad approach to protecting fisheries in Canada?

[Terry Rees]

No.

[Randy Kamp, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC]

Well....

[Terry Rees]

I don't agree that protecting specific fish against being killed is a broad approach at all. It's narrow, and lots of—

[Randy Kamp, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC]

Sorry to interrupt. Is it your view—I think I heard Mr. Meisenheimer going along this line—that the Department of Fisheries and Oceans should protect every water everywhere that may have had fish, may have fish in the future, or may have fish now?

[Terry Rees]

The current act under section 35 protects fish and their habitat. That provides the conditions for healthy aquatic ecosystems. That's the type of regulation and law that we appreciate.

[Randy Kamp, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC]

I want to ask Mr. Meisenheimer—

[The Chair, Conservative, Blaine Calkins]

Mr. Kamp, your time has expired. I guess we'll have to pursue this. In this particular case, Mr. Rees had the last word; last time, Mr. Meisenheimer had the last word.

I have to move on to Mr. Chisholm, for up to five minutes, please.

[Robert Chisholm, NDP, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

It's an interesting discussion. I just want to go to Mr. Rees and Mr. Meisenheimer for a couple here. The others have gotten a fair bit of attention. I want to give you guys an opportunity—especially seeing as your wife has put up with so much over the past couple of weeks.

Isn't it clear, given some of the discussion here tonight, that really your concerns are just getting in the way of jobs? Your concerns about the Great Lakes, the fishery, and infilling are really just getting in the way of jobs.

[Peter Meisenheimer]

I've certainly had that said to me directly, but not by members of this committee. What is very difficult to tease out of this is what other possible explanation there might be. I'll be honest, when I look at this presented in the manner in which it's been presented, with the content it contains, that's my assumption of what lies behind it.

[Robert Chisholm, NDP, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Mr. Rees.

[Terry Rees]

I'd like to dispel the fact that this is a jobs versus environment conversation. I think sustainable, smart development is something that can happen. It doesn't mean a race to the bottom and trying to match the lowest standards wherever they exist in the world. I think we can uphold the standard in Canada that makes us proud and allows us to sustain our healthy communities for the future.

A visitor from Germany came last week to look at Lake Winnipeg with me. That's a dying lake. It's the tenth-largest freshwater lake in the world. He was aghast that Canada, which he thought was the leader in freshwater, would have such a degraded water source that covers a million square kilometres right in the middle of our country.

[Robert Chisholm, NDP, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

That's interesting.

I take it that neither one of you was consulted about these changes before they came in?

[Peter Meisenheimer]

No.

[Robert Chisholm, NDP, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Were any of the other panellists consulted about these changes to any of the legislation that's included in Bill C-38?

[David Collyer]

I would observe that much of what's being talked about here has been discussed over a period of years, not weeks or months.

[Robert Chisholm, NDP, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

I'm just asking if you were consulted on the changes in Bill C-38. Yes or no?

[David Collyer]

There have been numerous discussions with numerous parties, including CAPP—

[The Chair, Conservative, Blaine Calkins]

Mr. Anderson, on a point of order.

[Robert Chisholm, NDP, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

I'm asking you to answer the question.

[The Chair, Conservative, Blaine Calkins]

Mr. Chisholm, I have to recognize a point of order, sorry.

Mr. Anderson.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

As a parliamentarian, Mr. Chisholm should know that budget bills are discussed for months prior to their being introduced in the House. He's aware of that, so certainly many folks have had six months, eight months to be—

[Robert Chisholm, NDP, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

That was helpful, David.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

So everyone at the table here was able to participate in that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Blaine Calkins]

Thank you, Mr. Anderson.

Mr. Chisholm, continue with your questions.