Evidence of meeting #3 for Subcommittee of the Standing Committee on Finance on Bill C-38 in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was environmental.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Chief Shawn A-in-chut Atleo  National Chief, Assembly of First Nations
Fred Denning  President, The British Columbia Coast Pilots Ltd.
David Schindler  Professor of Ecology, Department of Biological Sciences, University of Alberta, As an Individual
Terry Quinney  Provincial Manager, Fish and Wildlife Services, Ontario Federation of Anglers and Hunters
William Amos  Director, University of Ottawa - Ecojustice Environmental Law Clinic, Ecojustice Canada
Ron Bonnett  President, Canadian Federation of Agriculture
Kevin Obermeyer  President and CEO, Pacific Pilotage Authority
Scott Vaughan  Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
Clarence T. Jules  Chief Commissioner and Chief Executive Officer, First Nations Tax Commission

11 p.m.

Conservative

David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

That's fine.

We've heard again and again that the outcomes will not change, but the process will change. I think that's to strengthen the process. Definitions may be amended, but environmental results are going to be similar, if not more effective.

I want to ask you a question that may have partially been asked before. Do you think your drainage ditch should be treated the same as a salmon fishery? Do you think changing a culvert municipally should be treated the same as putting a pipeline across a river?

11 p.m.

President, Canadian Federation of Agriculture

Ron Bonnett

No, and I think that goes back to when you developed the regulations. We need to get some definitions on the types of projects that should be subject to more thorough reviews than others. Basically it's a waste of resources to go through a full-blown review on those types of projects.

11 p.m.

Conservative

David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

Does anybody else want to respond to that?

Everything is treated basically indiscriminately right now; everything is applied the same across the board. I see Mr. Vaughan shaking his head there or agreeing with me.

Does it make sense to give the minister the power to provide enhanced protection for ecologically sensitive areas? Is that a good move, rather than everybody treating your drainage ditch the same as a salmon fishery, or treating your culvert the same as a pipeline crossing a river? Isn't it a reasonable thing and a good idea for the environment minister to be able to move to protect ecologically sensitive areas?

11 p.m.

Provincial Manager, Fish and Wildlife Services, Ontario Federation of Anglers and Hunters

Dr. Terry Quinney

I have two quick comments. As you know, we have members in all corners of Ontario, and for some time the status quo has not been working. We need improvements. We're certainly willing to cooperate with whomever wishes to make improvements. So we appreciate that commitment by the federal government.

11 p.m.

Conservative

David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

One of the things we haven't talked much about tonight is enforcement. Fines can act as deterrents to any kind of ecologically damaging actions, and they're only effective if they're stringent enough. This proposed legislation is going to align infractions under the Fisheries Act with the environmental enforcement act, which actually provides higher maximum penalities.

Do you see that as a reasonable thing to do? Is that going too far? Will that be beneficial for Canadians?

Mr. Vaughan, go ahead.

11 p.m.

Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General of Canada

Scott Vaughan

I certainly would agree with you. The fines are a very clear signal within the act. We looked at fines in the past and said in past reports that they were low enough to have no effect. So increasing those fines would be aligned with something we found in past audits.

11 p.m.

Conservative

David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

We've heard that from people for a number of years, and Mr. Sopuck mentioned it. We've moved in that direction.

11 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Blaine Calkins

Thank you, Mr. Anderson.

Unfortunately, the five minutes have gone by. This brings to an end the second round of questions.

I would sincerely like to thank our witnesses for staying here, travelling here, and being here this late at night. If it is any consolation, Mr. Jules, Mr. Vaughan, Mr. Obermeyer, Mr. Bonnett, Mr. Amos, and Mr. Quinney, most of us who are about to leave will probably be here until 2 a.m. or 3 a.m. conducting business in the House. So while we have sympathy for you, we're not asking for any sympathy in return. We sincerely thank you for your presentations and your help in guiding us with our deliberations.

Colleagues, well done tonight, and we'll see you tomorrow.

The meeting is adjourned.