Evidence of meeting #29 for Finance in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was housing.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Hans Cunningham  Director for the Regional District Central Kootenay, British Columbia; President, Federation of Canadian Municipalities
Eira Thomas  Member, Board of Directors, Prospectors and Developers Association of Canada
Judith Guichon  President, British Columbia Cattlemen's Association
Loretta Wallace  Vice-President, Procom Group, National Association of Computer Consulting Businesses Canada
Hilla Kerner  Vancouver Rape Relief and Women's Shelter
Jeff Richards  Treasurer, Surrey Board of Trade
Joanne Curry  Executive Director, Simon Fraser University, Surrey Board of Trade
Pierre Gratton  President and Chief Executive Officer, Mining Association of British Columbia
Gabe Miller  Director, Federation of Canadian Municipalities
Kevin Boon  General Manager, British Columbia Cattlemen's Association
Laureen Whyte  Vice-President, Prospectors and Developers Association of Canada
Donald Bassermann  Chair, Omineca Beetle Action Coalition; Southern Interior Beetle Action Coalition
Rhona Martin  Chair, Southern Interior Beetle Action Coalition
Margaret Mason  Canadian Association of Gift Planners
Bart Given  Director, Marketing and Communications, Sport B.C.
Brenda Kenny  President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Energy Pipeline Association
Asia Czapska  Co-ordinator, Justice for Girls
Shelagh Day  Representative, B.C. CEDAW Group
Laura Holland  Spokesperson, B.C. CEDAW Group

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC

If the organizations already exist, why do we need that?

I'm trying to get you to piece the puzzle together.

11:40 a.m.

Co-ordinator, Justice for Girls

Asia Czapska

There are organizations that work with adult women that have adult transition houses, and then there are separate organizations that work with youth. There are separate pockets of money sometimes under youth homelessness so-called programs, but that money often goes to programs that are co-educational where there are young men and young women living in the same shelter or longer-term youth placement.

Instead of doing that and instead of just saying youth homelessness, there should be a pocket of that money, preferably half, that would actually go to programs that are specifically for homeless girls.

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC

That is for youth homeless girls. You would not amalgamate them with the adult women.

11:45 a.m.

Co-ordinator, Justice for Girls

Asia Czapska

No. We're saying that similar to the transition house that you see for violence against women, we need a similar response to violence against girls. We need to stop looking at youth homelessness as just somehow youth end up kicked out on the street; we need to look at the gender that's involved and how girls are ending up there.

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC

The money for that purpose you would see coming from the housing--

11:45 a.m.

Co-ordinator, Justice for Girls

Asia Czapska

It would be partly from federal housing. The homelessness partnering strategy is coming up. It's finishing in March. The federal government has said there will be continual funding for some housing and programs after that. However, after March we would like to see specific money within the federal anti-homelessness budget that is specifically for girls.

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC

Okay. And then the housing money would go for an organization like yours, and you would be able to run the home?

11:45 a.m.

Co-ordinator, Justice for Girls

Asia Czapska

Yes, possibly; it would be for organizations like ours that are, as you were saying, across the country.

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC

I'm just trying to parallel it with an organization in my riding for teenaged mothers. It's not subsidized at all by the federal government. It's subsidized by the provincial government and the city. The little bit of money that does come from the federal government is for other purposes--as you said, for teenaged homes and things like that--and even that is very little.

The problem with that is that nobody wants them in their riding, or in their neighbourhood, or on their street. It becomes a challenge as to where to place them. Sometimes they end up in the same place where we have the problem. They're in the tough neighbourhoods, not necessarily in the neighbourhoods where you want them to be, and that becomes another problem.

Through the housing strategy, you would see that it would ameliorate the situation if we allocated money specifically for that purpose. You would have the organizations that would be able to apply for these moneys.

11:45 a.m.

Co-ordinator, Justice for Girls

Asia Czapska

Yes. I believe the youth organizations that are working around youth homelessness would actually apply for money to make specific programs for homeless girls.

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC

Okay. I just wanted to make that clear. Thank you.

To Mr. Given of Sport B.C., in your brief you don't have an amount of money that you're requesting.

11:45 a.m.

Director, Marketing and Communications, Sport B.C.

Bart Given

Yes. I'm trying to sway the perception that amateur sport is always coming in and asking for a specific amount of money. Maybe that's....

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC

Well, this is the finance committee, in case you didn't realize that.

11:45 a.m.

Director, Marketing and Communications, Sport B.C.

Bart Given

I know. It's a really.... It's tough for me, as someone representing British Columbia, to ask for money from the federal government for amateur sport. I'm here representing Sport B.C.. There's obviously inherent value in investing in sport.

I guess I just urge you, as you sit around the table making budgetary decisions, to probably heed the lesson that Australia learned after the 2000 Sydney games. The idea was that the great performance that Australia had on the podium in 2000 would just lead to increased participation and great infrastructure in the amateur sport system. It did not happen. They've just completed a ten-year summary report, called the Crawford report, that really shows that the one area in which they lacked following the games was a focus on youth participation and participation among young adults. That's where they failed. They did a great job of getting to the podium, but after that the infrastructure wasn't in place.

The biggest fear we have in B.C. is that all these young snowboarders, hockey players, and downhill skiers who saw the great performances of Vancouver 2010 will go to their local clubs and not be able to participate for the lack of infrastructure, whether that be coaching, or facilities, or the fact that they can't afford it.

We're just looking to make sure that this is at the top of everyone's mind, looking forward.

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC

We can talk about sports all day long. I guess my concern is the fact that even if we put money in sports, there are....

First of all, do we need to put money in sports? There is tons of money in sports, if we find a way. What we have to do is basically make it very clear that it has to be for amateur sport. And when I'm talking about amateur sport, I'm not talking about the Olympics. I'm talking about the kids who are looking to participate. I'm seeing it at the local level. For example, my daughter is playing elite soccer, and it costs money, more and more money. I talk to my friends who have their boys in elite hockey, and it's thousands of dollars. It's no longer hundreds of dollars.

11:45 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Do you have a question?

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC

Yes.

If you're telling me it's easy to play sports at a lower level, it's not. So I'm just wondering, even if we do give money to some of the amateur sport organizations, how do we make sure that the local boys and local girls get access to that money and are able to participate?

11:50 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Just give a brief response, Mr. Given.

11:50 a.m.

Director, Marketing and Communications, Sport B.C.

Bart Given

Certainly.

I think amateur sport leverages dollars quite well. When they receive funding from provincial or federal governments, they leverage it quite well. And an investment in sport is also an investment in social and health care, so I think it's dollars well spent.

There are several factors to consider. There are organizations like KidSport, which started here in B.C., that help fund the kids who aren't financially able to play sports. We provide grants for registration fees. So an investment in KidSport would be substantial, as it would in some other programs that provincial sport organizations run and some of the things we do in first nations communities. Regarding the Power of Sport Tour, we provide infrastructure.

11:50 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Thank you.

Monsieur Paillé.

11:50 a.m.

Bloc

Daniel Paillé Bloc Hochelaga, QC

I wanted to start by discussing the Canadian Association of Gift Planners, but I think that the presentations made by the organizations Justice for Girls and BC CEDAW Group have prompted us to reconsider our priorities and to start with them. According to a number of urban legends, which are sometimes true and sometimes false, the federal budget is sometimes too much of an abstract notion for us to be cognizant of these concerns. It is also said that responsiveness to this kind of program is not gender-biased. The fact that there are fewer women than men in the House of Commons does not mean that the House is not responsive to these issues. I would like to revisit certain elements.

Ms. Day, you said earlier—and I am using the translation that was provided for us—that it's a bad time to make things even worse. Last year in the budgetary context, I talked about an 18- to 24-month timeline. There is a time lag between the beginning of a recession and our recognition of an increase in homelessness, whether it is among young people, the elderly, men, women or children. I would like to know if you are also witnessing the same trend here. People may be under the impression that the recession is over, but if it began 18 or 24 months ago, you are just now starting to experience a very strong increase in clientele. People who have lost their overtime privileges or their job have applied for employment insurance or social assistance benefits. Next, they may end up on the street.

Does this trend become increasingly prevalent a year and a half or two years into a recession, even as the government seems to have moved on to saying everything is going smoothly?

Ms. Czapska or Ms. Day, perhaps you could answer that.

11:50 a.m.

Representative, B.C. CEDAW Group

Shelagh Day

The B.C. CEDAW Group doesn't have clients per se. What I would say in answer to your question, however, is that we're still seeing the results of what the federal government did in 1995 when it thought it was dealing with a deficit, right? The withdrawal of the federal government from social policy in Canada has been marked over these last 15 years and it has had a very serious impact on people all over the country.

We certainly feel it here. When the federal government withdraws from social policy and decides not to set standards for certain things, the fallout comes here, and of course it means that provincial and territorial governments have changed their policies. They've cut funds and they don't have the same obligations that they once did to put money into particular kinds of programs. That's the kind of fallout I'm talking about.

I think we're at a period now where we can see very clearly what impact it has had and where we need to turn it around. We need to think about whether we want to be a country that's distributing wealth upwards. Is that what we really stand for? I don't think so. We've seen something over the last 15 years that Canada has never seen before: homeless people, people who don't have enough food, and the terrible impact that has on women. I don't think we want to stay there.

I'm asking you to really think about how to reverse that pattern.

11:55 a.m.

Bloc

Daniel Paillé Bloc Hochelaga, QC

Your brief mentions a 6% figure in relation to Justice for Girls. I would like to know how you came to that exact number.

We see that, in some multiple dwelling buildings, a percentage of the space is reserved for the elderly or for public housing, for instance. Would it be possible to reserve some space for your clients as well, or do you believe that they should live in specifically designated housing?

11:55 a.m.

Co-ordinator, Justice for Girls

Asia Czapska

They are both very good questions. Maybe I'll begin with the second question because it's on my mind.

The idea is, in a way, both, because there is specific housing that is needed for girls only. That is especially when girls are first escaping, either escaping violence or when they are kicked out of their homes, or if they are leaving foster homes or things like that. So at that time they actually need something similar to a transition house response for women, so girls-only transition houses that are short-term.

If you're talking about long-term housing, then I would agree with you that we're looking at whether there can actually be suites in mixed-unit buildings designated for young women; that is, teenage girls 16 to 18, especially young mothers. That's one of the big issues.

11:55 a.m.

Bloc

Daniel Paillé Bloc Hochelaga, QC

Would not creating specific housing result in ghettoization?