Evidence of meeting #102 for Finance in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was evasion.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Brian Ernewein  General Director, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance
Terrance McAuley  Assistant Commissioner, Compliance Programs Branch, Canada Revenue Agency
Jean Cormier  Officer In Charge Operations Support, Federal Policing Criminal Operations, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Richard Montroy  Deputy Assistant Commissioner, Compliance Programs Branch, Canada Revenue Agency

8:45 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

I call this meeting to order.

This is meeting 102 of the Standing Committee on Finance. Our orders of the day are pursuant to Standing Order 108(2): a study of tax evasion and the use of tax havens.

This is the continuation of a study that the committee had undertaken in the last session of Parliament in 2010-11; we're building on the work done by the committee at that time.

Colleagues, I want to thank our witnesses for being here with us this morning. We're very pleased to have three organizations with us: the Canada Revenue Agency, the Department of Finance, and the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. My understanding—I hope I'm correct here—is that the Department of Finance will go first, then CRA, then the RCMP. You each have about five minutes for an opening statement.

I think we'll start with Mr. Ernewein, then, from the Department of Finance, and then go to CRA and the RCMP.

8:45 a.m.

Brian Ernewein General Director, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Thank you, Chairman.

My name is Brian Ernewein. I'm the general director in the tax policy branch of the Department of Finance, and I'm joined by a few of my colleagues from the department, who may join us at the table if a question should arise.

I appreciate the invitation to appear before the committee again today to discuss tax evasion and tax avoidance. This gives me the opportunity to report to the committee on the government's most recent efforts, both domestically and internationally, to address various aspects of those issues.

I propose to briefly highlight some of the policy initiatives that we have undertaken in the recent past to combat tax evasion and tax avoidance. My remarks will first be about tax evasion and then move on to tax avoidance.

Tax evasion and combatting international tax evasion—I take that to be more the focus of the committee, but perhaps the questions will take us in different directions—primarily concerns the vigorous enforcement of existing tax rules by the Canada Revenue Agency. You'll be hearing from my colleagues at the agency about their experience in the administration and enforcement of Canadian laws. We take as a given that CRA's enforcement of our laws requires that the agency be provided with the right tools and be allocated sufficient resources to pursue those efforts.

Access to relevant taxpayer information is key to the effective enforcement of our tax laws. Internationally, bank secrecy laws are a significant obstacle to the exchange of tax information between tax authorities. In order to overcome that obstacle, it is important to have access to information on taxpayers who seek to avoid their tax obligations, especially in jurisdictions that maintain bank secrecy.

When I last appeared before this committee, in December 2010, I talked about the budget 2007 measures to improve tax information exchange and Canada's efforts to promote the OECD standards in transparency and effective information exchange. They have led to the negotiation of tax information exchange agreements and new or revised tax treaties.

I'm pleased to report that we've achieved significant progress in this regard since we were here a couple of years ago. Canada now has 16 tax information exchange agreements, or TIEAs, as we call them, in force, and is currently negotiating over a dozen more. Last week, we signed a TIEA with Liechtenstein, and we hope to be signing another later today. Almost all of Canada's 90 tax treaties currently in force now include the OECD standard on tax information exchange.

Of particular significance, the tax treaties that Canada has with other countries, which were identified as requiring changes during the Global Forum's peer review—and I'll talk in a moment about the Global Forum—have been or are being renegotiated.

We've had an amending protocol on exchange of information with Singapore that came into force in 2012. We have amending protocols with Austria, Barbados, Luxembourg, and Switzerland that have all been signed, and we have negotiations with Malaysia and Belgium that are in progress. From our perspective, a developed tax information network is an important cornerstone in combatting international tax evasion, and we're working to negotiate many more similar agreements in the future.

I said I'd talk for a second about the Global Forum, and I'll just take a second on it. The so-called Global Forum on Transparency and Exchange of Information now has 100 members—countries and subnational jurisdictions. It conducts rigorous peer reviews of the legislative framework and administrative practices of member states, including jurisdictions with which Canada has entered into TIEAs, or renegotiated tax treaties. This peer review helps ensure that Global Forum members abide by their obligations to exchange information in the manner that those TIEAs and tax treaties contemplate.

I'll say quickly that on the domestic front there are tools we can use to help the CRA in its work on dealing with tax evasion. One important example that's been in place for several years now is the Income Tax Act's foreign reporting rules, which require the disclosure of the value and location of property held outside Canada. These rules assist the CRA in detecting tax avoidance and evasion, and help to better target the CRA's audit efforts, both for individuals and for companies that own subsidiaries outside of Canada. These reporting obligations are backed up by penalties for failure to file the required return.

Finally, on the tax evasion front, additional funding has been provided to the CRA in past budgets in support of their enforcement efforts, particularly as regards international taxation and for the purpose of creating tax planning centres of expertise.

Moving over to the topic of tax avoidance—and I can be a little bit briefer on this point—I'd like to make mention of only recent initiatives that the government has made to address domestic and international tax avoidance. While tax evasion generally refers to the wilful concealment of income from taxation, tax avoidance is more in the nature of aggressive tax planning arrangements that reduce or eliminate tax, or purport to, which are presented as being consistent with the letter of the law but which produce results that are unintended and inconsistent with sound tax policy principles.

The government has put forward a large number of changes designed to address avoidance concerns and improve the integrity of the system. Just dealing with a few examples coming from the past year, Budget 2012 introduced measures to address aggressive tax shelters, to improve the integrity and fairness of our thin capitalization rules, and to restrict foreign affiliate dumping.

The second example, or list of examples, I will give you comes from Bill C-48, which is currently before the House. The Technical Tax Amendments Act does a lot of things. Among these, it contains legislative measures to give effect to a number of changes that were proposed in Budget 2010 to address aggressive tax avoidance transactions and to improve the integrity of the tax system. These included rules dealing with foreign investment entities and non-resident trusts, a reporting regime for aggressive tax planning transactions, and specific rules dealing with what were so-called foreign tax credit generators.

Just referring to those examples, I think they serve to show the tax system is being regularly reviewed and updated to address issues of tax avoidance. It's obvious that we must remain vigilant in identifying and pursuing issues as they arise, with a view to ensuring the fairness and integrity of the tax system.

Thank you.

8:50 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Thank you very much for your presentation.

We will now here from the CRA. I believe Mr. McAuley will be presenting on behalf of the CRA.

8:50 a.m.

Terrance McAuley Assistant Commissioner, Compliance Programs Branch, Canada Revenue Agency

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning.

Like Mr. Ernewein, I thank you for your invitation.

We have deposited with the clerk a copy of my opening remarks. In the interest of time, I will just summarize a bit of what is contained in that document.

I'd like to describe the Canada Revenue Agency's approach to combatting aggressive international tax planning and tax evasion. Tax evasion and tax avoidance are complex global issues facing governments of all countries. Countries around the world are taking action to combat this complex problem, and Canada is no exception.

The CRA has a multi-faceted approach to addressing aggressive international tax planning and tax evasion based on several focuses.

The first is obtaining information through the use of Canada's tax treaties, tax information exchange agreements, international networks, court orders known as unnamed person requirements, and of course our audit work.

The second is conducting audits and criminal investigations to verify and correct non-compliance and to build cases for prosecution of tax evaders. We are further enhancing our large business audit approach to place greater focus on higher-risk issues such as aggressive international tax planning, which includes reviewing of transfer pricing issues.

The third is working with our colleagues from the Department of Finance and the Department of Justice to identify where legislation is being misused—these are commonly known as loopholes—and with that in mind to design amendments to prevent further misuse.

The fourth is educating taxpayers through public communications such as tax alerts and news releases to help them avoid questionable schemes and remain compliant. We publicize cases of tax evasion to deter further abuse. Increased publicity is having the desired effect. More and more taxpayers are coming forward of their own accord to correct their tax affairs.

Fifth, this goes in line with promoting our voluntary disclosure program.

In conclusion, engaging with other jurisdictions and participating in international approaches—combined with our work to detect, deter, and address tax avoidance—and legislative action offer the best strategy to deliver value for Canadians.

Thank you.

8:55 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Thank you for your presentation.

Mr. Cormier, you may go ahead with your presentation.

8:55 a.m.

Inspector Jean Cormier Officer In Charge Operations Support, Federal Policing Criminal Operations, Royal Canadian Mounted Police

Good morning, Mr. Chair and honourable members of the committee. Thank you for inviting the RCMP to participate in today's meeting.

Good morning, everyone. Thank you for the invitation to participate in your meeting today.

I'm accompanied here today by Sergeant Stephen Corney, who is the national coordinator of the RCMP money laundering program at our headquarters. I am pleased to have this opportunity to say a few words about the RCMP, our involvement relative to the investigation of tax evasion cases, as well as our ongoing relationship with the Canada Revenue Agency.

As you already know, tax evasion is an issue that must be taken seriously, and we believe that efforts to prevent and recover lost revenue are increasingly important given current budgetary austerity. Tax evasion through offshore arrangements is an international crime conducted using advancements in technology, which allow everyone to move money anywhere around the world with speed and ease. This makes it much more difficult for law enforcement to scrutinize and thereby provides individuals and corporations with a new financial avenue to exploit.

As a result, it is important for law enforcement to work collaboratively with domestic and international partners to prevent, detect, and pursue those who engage in such activities. Cooperation between domestic and international partners must be supported by appropriate legislation. In August 2010, Bill C-9 amended the Proceeds of Crime (Money Laundering) and Terrorist Financing Act, making tax evasion a designated predicate offence for money laundering.

The RCMP is rarely the primary recipient of tax evasion information, as the Canada Revenue Agency is the main recipient of such information and is well equipped to investigate these matters. The RCMP and the Canada Revenue Agency have a close and long-standing working relationship. More recently, the RCMP and the Canada Revenue Agency have been working together to develop an action plan to enhance our working relationship in an effort to leverage not only each other's strengths but also the strength of other partners. The plan is to develop a more holistic approach to addressing tax evasion and the resulting money laundering problem.

Canada's anti-money laundering and anti-terrorist financing regime is a horizontal initiative comprised of both funded and non-funded partners. The RCMP and the Canada Revenue Agency are only two of those partners in the regime. Information sharing between the Canada Revenue Agency and the RCMP as it relates to tax information is mainly from the RCMP to the Canada Revenue Agency. Between 2007 and 2012, for example, the RCMP referred 2,470 cases to the Canada Revenue Agency for assessment. The aim of the regime is to detect and deter money laundering activity and the terrorist financing activities as well as facilitating the investigation and prosecution of money laundering and terrorist financing offences.

Whether occurring domestically or internationally, money laundering has a devastating impact on the financial integrity of a country. It directly impacts individuals, communities, businesses, economies, and international reputations as well, which can't be taken lightly. Proceeds of crime and money laundering investigations are complex and can be difficult to prove. They are time consuming and labour intensive to investigate and prosecute. We've seen investigations that have consumed thousands of person hours, involved millions of documents, and incurred hundreds of thousands of dollars in forensic accounting costs. Our ability to carry out this work is strengthened by our partnership with regulatory and other law enforcement and government agencies within Canada as well as internationally.

The RCMP has 43 resources that specialize in money laundering investigations across the country. These resources are mainly situated in Vancouver, Calgary, Toronto, Ottawa, and Montreal.

When you cannot generate a profit, there is no longer an incentive to commit profit-driven crime. Therefore, one of the main objectives of the RCMP's fight against organized crime is to identify, restrain, and confiscate illicit and unreported wealth accumulated through criminal activity. Across the country, the RCMP also operates in partnership with other law enforcement agencies. Although not every province has specialized money laundering investigators, other investigators are also responsible for investigating those crimes.

Although international cooperation has come a long way in establishing standards to prevent and detect tax evasion, continued efforts must be maintained. Although the Canada Revenue Agency has the main role in the enforcement of tax laws in Canada, the RCMP is the central enforcement agency for the investigation of possession of proceeds of crime and money laundering related to those crimes.

We believe that everyone has a role to play in the detection and deterrence of tax evasion activity. It is our belief that targeting the tax evasion activity suppresses a criminal's ability to profit from his or her illegal activity. Therefore, the legislation that I have mentioned must be combined with strong domestic and international partnerships as tools in the fight against those who exploit these financial avenues.

As the committee is aware, the RCMP has a number of other initiatives as part of our financial crime programs. I would like to point out that the Bank of Canada started to issue more secure polymer bank notes in 2011. The government, however, still has to consider the risk that counterfeiters will either attempt to dispose of older notes or take advantage of the unfamiliarity of Canadians with the new notes.

Budget 2012 provided a three-year investment of $9.6 million to ensure the RCMP continues with the national counterfeit enforcement strategy. First announced in Budget 2006, it provides resources for enforcement, prosecution, and prevention of currency counterfeiting. Since the launch of the strategy, counterfeiting has fallen to 34 parts per million in 2001 from 470 parts per million in 2004—so a substantial decrease.

The RCMP is committed to protecting Canada's economic integrity by continuing to contribute to efforts to detect and deter cases of tax evasion and the use of tax havens that have an impact on Canada.

I would like to thank you and the committee, and I look forward to answering your questions.

9 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Thank you very much for your presentation.

We'll begin members' questions with Ms. Nash, please.

February 5th, 2013 / 9 a.m.

NDP

Peggy Nash NDP Parkdale—High Park, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I just want to alert the members that, as you know, I have a motion on the Parliamentary Budget Officer, on extending his term until a qualified replacement is found. I'll be moving that towards the end of the meeting, if that's all right with you, Mr. Chair.

9 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Sure.

9 a.m.

NDP

Peggy Nash NDP Parkdale—High Park, ON

I'd just like to begin by thanking our colleague, Mr. Mai, who introduced the motion that was adopted that led us to continue this study on tax havens. Unfortunately, he can't be here to continue this work.

I want to thank the witnesses for being here, and I'd like to begin with Mr. Ernewein.

It's our understanding that the OECD has reported that in 2010 some countries produced significant results for recovered tax revenues associated with increased transparency. We understand that Germany has recouped $4 billion, the U.K. $600 million, $1 billion for France, and $5 billion for Italy, and that was very early on in the process.

I'm wondering if you or someone else could tell us, first of all, how much Canada has recouped to date from increased transparency, and what do you estimate to be the range of the picture for potential dollars that we could recoup for our tax system?

9 a.m.

General Director, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Brian Ernewein

I think this probably is a question that falls more to my colleagues at the Canada Revenue Agency in terms of tax collection, so I'll ask Mr. McAuley to respond.

9:05 a.m.

Assistant Commissioner, Compliance Programs Branch, Canada Revenue Agency

Terrance McAuley

Just in terms of the last five years or so since 2006, in terms of the recoveries that we've identified for aggressive international tax planning, it has ranged to approximately $4.6 billion since 2006. In addition, with respect to the work we do internationally with transfer pricing, again approximately $4.6 billion has been recovered in terms of additional income that has been identified.

9:05 a.m.

NDP

Peggy Nash NDP Parkdale—High Park, ON

How big is the scope of the problem? How large? I appreciate that you can't put a precise dollar amount on it, but what is the scope of what we're looking at if we're aggressive and effective in collecting taxes that ought to be paid now but are not being paid?

9:05 a.m.

Assistant Commissioner, Compliance Programs Branch, Canada Revenue Agency

Terrance McAuley

Canada does not identify the scope of the issue. Our approach is to look at the issue, to identify where we find aggressive international tax schemes, and to address those, identify the taxpayers who are involved in them and then shut them down. We put our energy into detecting and addressing, as opposed to identifying, the problem. The methodologies there are difficult.

9:05 a.m.

NDP

Peggy Nash NDP Parkdale—High Park, ON

Let me address that same question to you, Mr. Ernewein.

9:05 a.m.

General Director, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Brian Ernewein

I think the answer is that there isn't a calculation of an international tax gap done by Canada, either by Finance or by the Canada Revenue Agency or elsewhere.

9:05 a.m.

NDP

Peggy Nash NDP Parkdale—High Park, ON

So we have no idea how much money is out there? We have no idea of the scope? Surely there must be an estimate of the scope of this problem so that we understand the extent of the dollars we're trying to capture.

9:05 a.m.

General Director, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Brian Ernewein

To our knowledge, no country actually does a calculation of the international tax gap. There are some that have attempted a measurement using a lot of assumptions of a domestic tax gap, which is sometimes thought of as the underground economy, but not on the international tax front.

I understand that this is, or is intended to be, a continuation of hearings that were held a couple of years ago. During that set of hearings, you heard from Mr. Jeffrey Owens, the head of the tax section at the OECD. He said then—and I'm paraphrasing a little bit—that trying to measure the tax gap is prone to conceptual difficulties and leads to practical difficulties. If you could measure it accurately, you could probably tax it quite simply.

That's probably a fair assessment of the issue.

9:05 a.m.

NDP

Peggy Nash NDP Parkdale—High Park, ON

Let me move to a different question for Mr. McAuley.

Mr. McAuley, you did talk about additional resources to create greater transparency and to crack down where there are problems now. As part of the Conservatives' cuts to the public service, 400 auditors in the compliance branch of CRA are scheduled to be cut. How will these cuts impact our ability to tackle tax havens in Canada?

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Could we have just a brief response, Mr. McAuley, please?

9:05 a.m.

Assistant Commissioner, Compliance Programs Branch, Canada Revenue Agency

Terrance McAuley

The aggressive international tax planning and all of our international work are priorities for the agency, and there will be no cuts to auditors associated with aggressive international tax planning.

9:05 a.m.

NDP

Peggy Nash NDP Parkdale—High Park, ON

So the 400 auditors that are being cut in CRA will not be working on the tax haven issue? Is that what you're saying? They'll be doing domestic taxation?

9:05 a.m.

Assistant Commissioner, Compliance Programs Branch, Canada Revenue Agency

Terrance McAuley

Any reductions will not be associated with international taxation.

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Thank you, Ms. Nash.

Mr. Jean, go ahead, please.

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Gentlemen, thank you for your attendance today.

First of all, just to clarify, there is a difference between tax evasion and tax avoidance. Tax evasion, for instance, I see from your brief, is the suppression or falsification of information. Tax avoidance is using technical applications, getting a good accountant and so on, to avoid taxes legally if you can.

Is that fair to say, gentlemen?