Finance Committee on Nov. 1st, 2011

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

I'll just respond to that point of order.

It's not a point of order, and it's not beyond the scope because I allowed the questions from Mr. Hsu who brought up the issue of something that was not in Bill C-13.

Mr. Lake.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

I've done my question.

[Dr. Jayson Myers]

I think there has to be a balance between the costs of the EI system and the contributions, and we can't be expecting the system to be paying out higher benefits while looking at the impact of the cost of this on employment itself. So there has to be a balance, and that balance is part of the system.

One very important part of the EI system that has been in place over the last couple of years that's made the real difference in terms of being able to retain jobs was work sharing. In my mind, work sharing was a far more important part of the EI benefit, and one that companies are prepared to pay for, because nobody wants to lose their employees in a short-term downturn. So there are some benefits that you really do need at this time, and companies are prepared to pay for it.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Okay, thank you, Mr. Myers. Thank you, Mr. Lake.

We'll go to Mr. Mai, s'il vous plâit.

[Hoang Mai, NDP, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

A quick question for the FCM. I'm trying to figure out, because we've been saying that we need to invest in infrastructure--we'll submit a proposal regarding indexing the gas tax and also adding another cent per litre to that fund. Do you have an idea of the updated amount of the infrastructure deficit we talked about today?

[Berry Vrbanovic]

As I indicated earlier, the most current numbers we have are the ones from our 2007 report. And the first step of any new plan would be to take stock of where we sit.

[Hoang Mai, NDP, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

Can you explain to us if the amount of $2 billion is not indexed, what the implications would be for the municipalities?

[Berry Vrbanovic]

Even if we don't see any sort of indexation going forward, over the next 20 years, because of inflation and population growth, we will in effect lose the purchasing power of about 50% of that $2 billion figure. That's why we talk about the long-term plan and the need to look at some form of indexation. What it looks like is a point of discussion as part of this process. Inevitably, other funding will become necessary as well. We know, for example, the Building Canada fund exists. We're going to need to see some sort of continuation of that in the future as well.

[Hoang Mai, NDP, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

And we've seen in the 2009 budget that the government took a look at the numbers. Investing in infrastructure had five times the impact on the economy than reducing corporate tax for big companies.

Do you agree with that link? It was in the budget.

[Berry Vrbanovic]

Again, I'm not going to get into a debate on the merits or lack thereof of some of these particular fiscal approaches. What I will focus on is the fact that we as local government believe that certain successes are achieved by investing in infrastructure. Jobs are created.

[Hoang Mai, NDP, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

And we totally agree with you. That's why we were pushing for it. The other one was more an economic multiplier, so it was just a fact.

A question for Mr. Myers. In your brief you mentioned that we should invest in R and D. In Bill C-13 there is a capital cost allowance for clean energy generation and conservation of equipment. Can you tell us, if we were to move toward a cleaner energy, greener economy, how that would benefit your members and the economy in general, and why it would be better for us to invest in that type of energy?

[Dr. Jayson Myers]

Good question.

I think in two ways, from a manufacturing point of view. This is the sector, by the way, that across the country has realized a 12% reduction in overall emissions since 1990, far surpassing the Kyoto target here, and the emissions were reduced primarily as a result of investment in new technology, which was also energy-efficient technology. So if you can provide incentives for that type of investment, it certainly makes a lot of sense from a business case. But also, of course, there are tremendous opportunities for companies supplying alternative energy projects across the country.

We've been talking about infrastructure, but the challenge to Canada over the next five years is going to be the following: how do we support the clean or carbon-based energy? How do we support the mining, forestry, shipbuilding, and upgrading projects that are across the country? There is tremendous opportunity for manufacturing and tremendous opportunity for clean energy and for clean technologies as part of that, because it's all going to be very tightly regulated, of course. But those are the infrastructure demands that we're going to be facing; there are tremendous strains already in terms of availability of labour and increasing costs.

So we have to figure out a way to ensure that those investments, which come from business, by the way, continue to be made. And the incentives, like the clean energy technology and the two-year write-off, are very powerful instruments that help those investments.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Merci.

Over to Mrs. Glover, please.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank our witnesses once again for joining us this evening. It is always a pleasure to have you with us.

I will start with a question for the Federation of Canadian Municipalities.

I'll speak in English, although I was very impressed with your French. So congratulations on that.

I'm going to ask you about a couple of measures that are in the Budget Implementation Act that I want your opinion on, to know whether or not we're going in the right direction.

First of all, I'm a police officer by trade—I'm on a leave of absence—and I worked very closely with firefighters over the 20 years I was policing. This was not just with the City of Winnipeg firefighters, but with some in rural municipalities. I know you have a number of firefighters working in your rural municipalities, and this volunteer firefighters tax credit that we've put forward seems to me to be a very important measure. We've heard from some folks who also see it as a good measure.

Do you know who Hans Cunningham is?

[Berry Vrbanovic]

Absolutely. He's our past-president.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

And what did he used to do before being your president?

[Berry Vrbanovic]

He was a volunteer firefighter. In fact, he was a fire chief.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Can I share with you what he said to us? Here's the quote:

This is something that has been near and dear to the hearts of Ontario firefighters. Most fire departments in small communities are the hub of their community.

I know that's how he felt, but can you speak to the importance of this tax credit to the folks who are working in your rural municipalities now?

[Berry Vrbanovic]

Certainly what I can tell you is that, as an association of local government, we supported that initiative and we spoke in favour of that initiative, as you heard from our president last year, Hans Cunningham, at this very committee, who spoke in favour of it.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Thanks.

I think it's an important measure as well, but some people don't think it's an important measure, so I just wanted to get your opinion on it.

The other one is the loans that will be forgiven for doctors and nurses who end up working in rural communities, mainly remote rural communities. Again, what do you think of that measure in the BIA?

[Berry Vrbanovic]

What I can say to you on that, obviously, is that doctors and nurses in our rural communities are extremely important. Again, that was an initiative that we were supportive of. We actually called for that in terms of our election platform and in the issues we were looking for the various political parties to respond to in the election.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Do you think it'll make it easier for you to attract them to your communities in the remote areas?

[Berry Vrbanovic]

I think any initiative like that certainly can assist in attracting folks. I can tell you even in my own community, which is a large urban centre in southwestern Ontario, we have had our challenges attracting physicians and specialists. Any sort of incentive program that exists will certainly help bring them to the communities.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Okay. Excellent.

Mr. Laporte, I have a quick question for you, if you don't mind.

Regarding federal employees, in our budget and our proposal, we have eliminated the mandatory age of retirement for employees. We think that's important. What do you think about that measure, which has been included in the budget? How important do you think it is and do you agree with it?

[Jean-Pierre Laporte]

Yes, I have no objection to people retiring after the age of 65. If people are skilled, have something to offer their employer and need to continue working, I think that allowing them to retire later benefits both parties.