Finance Committee on March 15th, 2012

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you, Mr. Julian.

Ms. Glover.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm really shocked—like, sincerely shocked—at the misleading statements made by Mr. Julian again. This is becoming a partisan issue, which I'm going to try to completely ignore, because frankly it's not fair to these people who've been appointed.

Just to correct Mr. Brison, these are not nominees; these are people who have in fact been appointed. As I suggested, due diligence can be achieved by reviewing, on our own, the resumés of each of these individuals. If there is a concern, that ought to be brought to committee, which was suggested, for whatever reason...and I don't understand why Mr. Julian chooses to twist that into us not wanting to look at them. I in fact have looked at them, and I'm very proud of some of the measures that have been taken to look at their qualifications, etc.

I would ask Mr. Julian to specifically name the people who have been appointed that he wants to look at. If he could specifically name them, I then would have a follow-up from there, because I'm interested, very much, in highlighting some of the very qualified appointees we have.

So if he would do that, I'd like to have another chance afterwards to have a follow-up.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

With respect to that, my understanding is the order in council appointments referred to in the motion refer to nine individuals.

Mr. Julian, do you want to respond to the first?

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

No, you're absolutely right, Mr. Chair. That's exactly what we reference in the motion.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Nine appointments are referenced in the motion.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

They're not referenced by name. I want him to name the ones he wants to look at.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

The numbers in here refer to nine individuals.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Yes, but I'd like him to name them. I've done my homework. I certainly know a little bit about each of these people.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Well, let's—

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Here's why, Mr. Chair. The follow-up question would be, why on earth would Mr. Julian want to call into question the choice of the NDP government of Manitoba in Mr. Raymond Desrochers? It was their choice. It was a provincial nomination, not a federal nomination. It's an NDP government that nominated him. He's been serving since 2004. Why on earth would Mr. Julian question our NDP government in Manitoba on its choice for this member on CRA?

Obviously Mr. Julian is eager to answer that question. I'm anxious to hear the answer.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Okay.

Mr. Julian.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Well, I'm kind of surprised, Mr. Chair. We brought forward normal committee practice, and the Conservatives seem to want to make this a very partisan battle. It's quite stunning.

There are nine appointments. They're all covered in the motion. It's part of our due diligence as members of the finance committee to do this work.

I find it surprising that the Conservatives seem to see due diligence as something that is partisan, as something you do when it's a partisan appointment as opposed to something that is a normal practice of the committee. To do this is normal practice.

I believe that the Conservative government should be proud of the appointments they've made. As Mr. Brison said so eloquently, they should be proud to bring forward those recommendations and have them examined, as we are supposed to do under Standing Orders 110 and 111. I'm surprised by the reaction, as though there's supposed to be some kind of partisan battle over appointments.

It is just simply due diligence, transparency. It's part of our job, Mr. Chair. It's why we get paid. We're suggesting humbly that we do our job, that we do our work. I just can't understand the Conservative resistance to that.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you.

Ms. Glover and then Mr. Brison.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

I don't wish to embarrass the member any further. It's obvious the member cannot name a single one of these appointments or talk about their backgrounds. We on this side have done due diligence.

We are proud of a process that is in place, that has worked very well. We leave it open so that if there is a concern about any specific one, the NDP or the Liberals can certainly come forward and make a motion to actually look at a specific one, but we will not support looking at nine individuals over what the NDP said are “some committee meetings”. That is what Mr. Julian said. We do not have the time to look at “some committee meetings” on this issue. We are willing to do the work on our own time. I'm surprised the opposition is not. If we have a concern, certainly we'll bring it to committee.

We've already done our homework. We don't have a concern. If the NDP or the Liberals have a concern, we're open to their bringing it forward with some specifics and not having it take too much time out of the committee.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you.

Mr. Brison, then Mr. Jean, and then Monsieur Mai.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

This is not to question the suitability of these appointments. It's simply in the interests of transparency and of giving the governing party, the Conservatives, an opportunity to showcase these appointments, as well as giving opposition members an opportunity to evaluate. I think that is something that has been consistent with the Reform Party policy for a long time.

I know, for instance, that some initial evaluation has been done. For instance, all of this group of appointees to the board of the Canadian Mint have met at least one criterion—they've all contributed money to the Conservative Party of Canada. Perhaps they've contributed to other parties as well, and we'd perhaps take a look at that, although we wouldn't consider that pertinent to their qualification as candidates. I think contributions to the governing party ought not be the only criterion considered when we're making these kinds of appointments.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you, Mr. Brison.

We'll go to Mr. Jean, please.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

I'll be very quick, Mr. Chair.

What I don't understand is that during a minority government, at least six of these people were appointed. In fact, six of them are reappointments. If they're so concerned about them now, why weren't they concerned about them last time? That's what I don't understand. Certainly it questions their political motive.

We are very proud of these appointments. The court of public opinion will decide on whether or not they are fit and suitable for office, but more than 50% of them have held the office for some period of time. These are simply reappointments, and reaffirm the position of what a great job they've done for the people of Canada. The Canada Revenue Agency appointment and I think three of the Canadian Mint appointments are all reappointments, so....

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you.

Monsieur Mai.

[Hoang Mai, NDP, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

The motion we proposed is non-partisan. It deals with the work that the Standing Committee on Finance needs to do. According to the regulations, the committee must study these appointments, as my colleague Mr. Julian mentioned; we must fulfill our duty. Still, we are talking about administrators of the Canada Revenue Agency's board of management and of the Royal Canadian Mint's board of directors.

As well, Mr. Jean spoke about people who were there before. I wasn't here at that time. So I think it's important to see who these people in high-ranking positions are. It's not a matter of partisanship and, as Mr. Brison said, the important thing here is to be able to do our work, study these appointments in-depth and let Canadians know who these people are.

It isn't necessarily a personal attack, unlike my colleagues opposite are led to believe. We simply want to carry out the duty of the Standing Committee on Finance and see who these people are.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you.

I'd like to move to a vote on this motion.

All those in favour of the motion?

(Motion negatived)

With five in favour and six opposed, the motion is defeated.

As I mentioned before, we will suspend and then we'll go in camera to do future committee business.

[Proceedings continue in camera]