Evidence of meeting #50 for Finance in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was wines.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Hanspeter Stutz  As an Individual
Ivonne Martinez  President, Alberta Liquor Store Association
Rowland Dunning  Executive Director, Canadian Association of Liquor Jurisdictions
Dan Paszkowski  President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Vintners Association
Harry McWatters  Time Estate Winery, Vintage Consulting Group Inc.
Janice Ruddock  Managing Director, Winery Association of Nova Scotia

5:20 p.m.

President, Alberta Liquor Store Association

Ivonne Martinez

Well, ordering online is not quite the same as going to the winery and coming back, they would argue, but perhaps I can defer to my friend Rowland.

5:20 p.m.

Executive Director, Canadian Association of Liquor Jurisdictions

Rowland Dunning

Let me add to this that it's not a question of your bringing a case of wine back from the Okanagan when you've been there visiting wineries; it's when you get back to Alberta and decide that you like that wine so much that you're going to go online and have them deliver four or five cases to you that the limits would have to be imposed.

5:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Okay, that's where I wanted to go, so let me go there.

In your statement you say, “As a matter of fact, Albertans are able to order wine directly from...wineries, as long as they go through a local store.”

5:25 p.m.

President, Alberta Liquor Store Association

Ivonne Martinez

That's right.

5:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Knowing Albertans as I do, if I put a question to Albertans asking whether they should be allowed to go online and order a box of wine from Quail's Gate Winery in B.C. delivered to their home or whether they should have to go through their local retailer to do it, I suspect that 98% of Albertans would say they should be able to do that directly.

Knowing Albertans as I do.... Even some of your own members, Ms. Martinez, would say yes, as an Albertan you should be able to order directly to your home without going through a third party.

5:25 p.m.

President, Alberta Liquor Store Association

Ivonne Martinez

I know the two store owners you've been discussing this with. I'll just comment that not many store owners have the ability to have this as a side job or to have a chain store. The majority of them are mom-and-pop shops across the province that may not be able to afford a loss of sales. From their perspective—and I hear from the majority of them—they're not opposed to this bill; they just object to how the implementation would happen and they believe that it is not necessary at this point in time.

5:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

But would an Albertan favour this system for agricultural or natural resource products across the country? Would we say you can set up products that are local to Alberta? Would we allow other provinces to set up provincial regulatory authorities to determine how those products should be distributed across Canada?

5:25 p.m.

President, Alberta Liquor Store Association

Ivonne Martinez

I would defer again to the counsel here, but the regulatory bodies for alcohol already exist, so we're just working within the system or bypassing jurisdiction.

5:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Do you want to answer this, Mr. Dunning?

We are advocating for free trade around the world and arguing that we should lower barriers around the world. At the same time, in this country we're still supporting barriers on products between provinces. I'd like you to address that, because it is a fundamental issue. It's fundamentally why I support this legislation. We should support the free flow of goods and services across this country, as we're doing around the world by signing free trade agreements, and not impede it. We should not have more free trade between provinces and other countries than we have between citizens and companies within this country.

Do you want to respond to that?

5:25 p.m.

Executive Director, Canadian Association of Liquor Jurisdictions

Rowland Dunning

The only thing I can say is that Canadians have free access to wine from across the country. There are no trade barriers—

5:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

—as long as it's through a provincial authority.

5:25 p.m.

Executive Director, Canadian Association of Liquor Jurisdictions

Rowland Dunning

Yes. That's the same for any wine from anywhere in the world, so that's the free trade aspect of it. Residents of Ontario or any other province can get wine from any country in the world through their liquor board. They can get wine from any province in Canada through their liquor board.

As for why we have the regulatory system in place, why it works so well, and why Canadian governments have decided they want to have liquor boards, it's because we're mandated to generate revenue to pay for provincial programs. One of the ways we do that is to have markups on products to cover off the health care system, as was mentioned earlier. It benefits greatly from the sale of alcoholic products in Canada. Our residents don't have to pay the exorbitant costs that are paid in the U.S. That's why we're there to generate revenue, but at the same time we have a free trade agreement right across the country through the liquor boards.

5:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

We'll have to respectfully disagree, but I certainly appreciate your point of view.

I appreciate all of you being here. I want to thank you for your presentation to our committee.

As I mentioned, our second hearing on this will be on April 3. If you have anything further you wish us to consider, please let us know.

Mr. Brison, you wanted to extend an invitation to the committee.

5:25 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

I have a brief announcement and an invitation to all committee members and staff, including our research staff of the House, to the “taste of Nova Scotia” wine reception. It begins right now, so we're cutting into valuable Nova Scotia wine time. It is in room 216 North.

Research is important. It's important that you do your research on these issues, and tonight is about delving into the situation.

5:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Thank you, colleagues.

The meeting is adjourned.