Finance Committee on May 17th, 2012

[Hoang Mai, NDP, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

So before the budget cuts, Environment Canada employees did that work. Everyone knows that 600-plus jobs were cut as a result of the budget. Is Parks Canada doing that job now since Environment Canada has fewer resources to deal with those problems?

[Jonah Mitchell]

If I understand the question, in terms of a reduction to the amount of the work that Environment Canada is responsible for, whether we are taking on work that is a reduction to them, no that's not the case, to the best of my knowledge. Their officers are centrally located, generally in urban centres, so this is purely a more efficient response time. We're not going to be replacing...and there's not a reduction in their authorities or their—

[Hoang Mai, NDP, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

Could you confirm whether these changes require Parks Canada to prepare an annual report, or is that still your domain?

[Jonah Mitchell]

Is this in relation to enforcement or the reporting?

[Hoang Mai, NDP, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

Reporting.

[Margaret Strysio]

In terms of our planning and reporting, we, like all departmental organizations, would still prepare a report on plans and priorities, which would be tabled in the House, and a departmental performance report each year, reporting back on how we've done relative to our plan. That would be tabled as well. Basically, we'd have the same accountability reporting as other departmental organizations.

[Hoang Mai, NDP, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

We have concerns about the Auditor General not being able to perform audits. How is Parks Canada's accountability affected, given that the Auditor General no longer has to review your reports?

[Margaret Strysio]

We would still continue to report on our performance and our departmental performance report, as do other organizations. What would be different is that the Auditor General wouldn't come in and ask to see evidence that we had indeed achieved the performance that we were reporting. That was an anomaly for just three separate agencies created around the late 1990s, early 2000s. That requirement was there. There isn't that requirement for any other departmental organization or crown corporation, so it was felt that that level of oversight wasn't required. It's been in place for about 10 years, and everything has gone very well for these new organizations, including Parks Canada. It was felt not to be a requirement, but that we would continue to report on our performance every year, as other organizations do.

And it's the same thing for the financial statements; we would continue to do financial statements. They would be presented to our external audit committee, but they wouldn't be audited by the Office of the Auditor General, so we would be on the same footing as other departmental organizations.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you.

We'll go to Ms. McLeod, please.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Certainly I appreciated that very specific example. Having done work in remote locations, I can remember a health nurse for the federal government doing immunizations and having to drive four hours to immunize one baby. It always seemed like such a terrible waste of time and resources. So I really appreciate this move, in terms of a little bit more flexibility with the role.

Just to clarify, this would only relate to federal statutes and enforcement, or have there been conversations in terms of some opportunities for provincial collaborations?

[Jonah Mitchell]

At this point, this is seen as federal, in designating some of our officers under acts administered by Environment Canada.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you, Ms. McLeod.

Mr. Brison, go ahead, please.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

On the decision to change the audit approach, were they initiated by the Auditor General as part of his general decision to reduce audit functions of agencies--his office's approach to Parks Canada?

[Margaret Strysio]

In fact in this case we had raised it with the Office of the Auditor General, which we deal with on an ongoing basis, and they had indicated to us that they were also looking at the same thing, from their side. So it was kind of a mutual discussion on that.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

I guess we'll have the Auditor General before the committee and have an opportunity to discuss that. I think that for a lot of us, the idea of reducing in any way the audit function of government—and I speak as a former Minister of Public Works.... On an ongoing basis, constructive audit functions are very important, whether they're from the Auditor General or Comptroller General. It's something we're watching closely. We're interested in discussing how in this age, particularly during a period of expenditure review, reducing audit function....

Is it a feeling that perhaps the audit function had become too onerous, that it wasn't really from a cost-benefit analysis, that it wasn't really benefiting, and that perhaps the audit function had gone too far? Is that part of the consideration?

[Margaret Strysio]

I don't believe so. Because no other departmental organizations have a requirement for an audit of their financial statements on an individual basis—they're all audited through kind of the rolled-up Government of Canada accounts—individually they don't undergo an audit of their financial statements. So for the few organizations that through their own enabling legislation had this requirement added, it was felt that there was no need for these particular organizations to be singled out with a different requirement from the others, in terms of risk. So I think the Auditor General was looking at where the risks are and auditing it on a more risk-based approach.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you, Mr. Brison.

Monsieur Mai.

[Hoang Mai, NDP, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

I want to stay on the same topic. You said the reports would be audited by an external committee. Could you elaborate on that?

[Margaret Strysio]

Just to clarify that, all departments have an audit committee that consists of external members. That committee reviews all matters and all internal audits that are conducted by the organization. They also review our performance report and would review our financial statements.

But that's certainly not an audit that would be taking place; it's just that it does get reviewed by our audit committee. The audit committee, in its terms of reference, does have the authority to request an external audit to be conducted on the organization. They do have that authority, so there is a bit of oversight there.

[Hoang Mai, NDP, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

If there were to be an external audit, who would do the auditing?

[Margaret Strysio]

Someone would need to be engaged to do that work.

[Hoang Mai, NDP, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

So it would be a private firm—

[Margaret Strysio]

That's right.